F150 & Extended Warranty

[BobP]

Guys with F150s less than 3 yrs old, particluarly low hour usage ones, may want to consider purchasing the YES extended warranty - if you don't already have it.

http://www.thehulltruth.com/boating-for ... -fail.html

 

[ocnslr]

Had the twins installed in Nov 2005. Now have 865 hours on them.... have always run perfectly.

Brian

 

[CJBROWN]

Do you know how much they are?

I have never been one to buy extended warranties unless I know I've got a lemon (at high risk). It's like playing the lottery, which I don't either. Not much of a gambler. And as a competent DIY'er I see it as a way to build revenues for the manufacturer only, something I will never be able to take advantage of.

 

[BobP]

Consider the warranty for "major failures".
Did you read the THT thread?

When that occurs, motor except lower unit and T&T, is total loss.

In the case of the F150 , it' s the unique internal counter vibration balance shaft mechanism.
When it goes, it goes, from what I read.

 

[Hookup1]

F150's

Is this a one off problem or are we seeing lots of them fail this way?

 

[BobP]

From what I read over at THT, it seems to happen early on (low hours) when it does.

The THT thread has grown since I posted this subject.

 

[BobP]

And I don't think the design was changed, so there is no particular manufacturing years involved.

In line 4 cyl motors create vibrations that V (two head) motors don't and hence the need for a spinning internal shaft counterweighed to null out the vibration. No such issue with V4s, V6s, V8s.

The traditional outboard 150 HP motors have all been V6s. Suzuki (150/175)and Yamaha F150s are inline 4 cyl. Don't know about Honda 150HP.

Balance shafts have been used in 4 cyl inline car motors for many decades now. You don't even know they are there, no maintenance required.

 

[BobP]

Not to forget MERC, don't know about the Verado either.

 

[JUST-IN-TIME]

v-rat is a straight six

 

[jimintheair3]

Yamaha has been replacing all harmonic balancers for free (in warrenty or out) for all F150. Talk to Andy at Island Marine.
JIm

 

[NOTHING ELSE MATTERS]

What's with the harmonic balancers and Yamaha? They changed mine too on the F350's ????????????????

 

[JUST-IN-TIME]

no the 350 was the flywheel

 

[NOTHING ELSE MATTERS]

no the 350 was the flywheel

I think had to do something with the harmonic balancers or the spacers? something like that.

 

[CJBROWN]

snip

In line 4 cyl motors create vibrations that V (two head) motors don't and hence the need for a spinning internal shaft counterweighed to null out the vibration. No such issue with V4s, V6s, V8s.

Balance shafts have been used in 4 cyl inline car motors for many decades now. You don't even know they are there, no maintenance required.

I have not looked at an exploded view of the inner workings, but are you sure there's a counter-shaft? 4 cyl car motors do not have a countershaft.

Porsche has employed them in some years of the 911, Cayman, and Boxter motors which are a flat-6, and have quite a reputation of bearings galling (they run dry) and grenading the motor. Those are $12K motors as well, and Porsche is good about rebuilding or replacing them while in warranty, but once they get out past the 5/60 or so it's on the owner. there is an aftermarket fix for them, beefed up bearings and a different seal configuration that lets sump oil lube them. Latest models have done away with the countershaft, or its of a different design. I was looking at a Boxter or Cayman and decided the risk wasn't worth the thrill. And they're expensive. Nice cars tho.

A harmonic balancer I can understand, is that what Yamaha is replacing under warranty? What is the problem with them? Anyone up to speed on this?

I'm at 300 hours and it runs like a clock...should I even worry?

 

[BobP]

I'm going have to do some reasearch here to defend my statements on inline 4 cylinders car motors - I read about the natural frequency problem a long time ago when 4 cyl car motors started showing up. No other inline motor, only 4 cylinder.

Hence when I heard the F150 had a nylon gear to spin the balance shaft, made sence. And the nylon gear exploded wrecking the motor.
Need to see an exploded view of the motor block.
Anyone have the F150 factory service manual to look at - WHERE IS NYLON GEAR ?
If it's spinning, something has to turn it.

I'm not pretending to be a Yamaha mechanic.

The F350 is a different issue, equally as destructive when it fails - total loss.

 

[BobP]

I have found one witness to unknowingly corroborate my testimony !

http://www.askmehelpdesk.com/cars-truck ... 61084.html
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Getting back to the F150, if this was the car industry, I would expect Yamaha to do this:

"Yamaha extends to all owners of F150s a 10 yr/2000 hr extended warranty against balancer failure, whichever comes first, at no charge, irrespective of existing warranty status"

begs two questions -

1. if there are so few failures, what's wrong with this freebe? Going to break the bank at Yamaha?

2. What are the chances this will occur.

3. What can we do to see it happen?
ANS: Start writing the emails and letters to Yamaha HQ, NOW!

 

[CJBROWN]

Bob, your link is referring to a harmonic balancer, as all normal car engines have, not a counter-shaft.

Browsing thru the exploded diagrams for the F150 on the Yamaha parts catalog I find nothing that even remotely looks like a gear driven counter balance shaft. There is the crankshaft and two camshafts that run thru the block - no others.

Here is a diagram of the alternator and flywheel, and again, there is no referrence to any kind of counter balancer, gear-driven or otherwise.

It is common to have a flywheel keyed and weightet to act as a harmonic balancer for an inline motor, which looks to be the case here. I would like to know more about what's causing a shaft failure and motor explosion tho.

I'm not too worried. If it's a known issue with common failures they'll back it up. It still doesn't convince me to shell out $1200 or $1500 or whatever it is for an extended warranty. I'll take my chances. :wink:

 

[BobP]

I don't agree with you on the 4 cylinder car motors, but disagreement is OK with me! It's not the same as the common "harmonic balancer" on any motor, it's an additional assembly.

Right out of that link:
"Both Honda and Toyota has these to get rid of engine vibration so common with 4 cylinders"
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Can't add any more on the F150 but-

I was at the dealer the other day to get my 2004 car transmission flushed, asked the parts manager for a price on the A/C belt.
He said there is only one belt, and showed me a factory manual diagram on the A/C option motor screen, I said I saw two pulleys on the crankshafdt are you sure? He said yes pissed off and printed out the diagram to give me.

I was under the car changing the oil - just like I said there is two belts one for the compressor one for everything else.

So much for factory service manuala and the factory trained experts.

 

[BobP]

In your F150 diagram the harminic balancer is Item 1, I call these flywheels myself.

I have the same on top of my HPDI and between the motor and transmission of every car I ever owned.

 

[CJBROWN]

Well Bob, you're right...yer a smart feller!

I did not realize there were so many of these smaller motors out there with a counter-balance shaft. But then I've mostly worked on motorcycle motors, and GM and Ford V8's and inline 6's.

Here's a good description of the balance shaft, its history, and the types of cars and engines they are found in. Sure enough toyota 2.4L 4 cyl is there:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balance_shaft

I still don't think the F150 yamer has one, but maybe it is there indeed.

I wonder if there are weights that are spot-welded on the flywheel that are popping off and causing the motor to self-distruct? May have to call Andy one of these days and find out what he knows about it.