Ring Free at every fill up, and startron in the last couple fill ups of the season. I have been doing this for years. I try to fill up with valvetech whenever possible.
Fuel Stabilizers? Any preference guys?
- Thread starter Gianni
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RingFree is more important to 2-strokes than 4-strokes. Gianni - you didn't mention what type of engine you have.
I'd like to find a less expensive alternative to RingFree, but I'm also a tried and true believer in it after seeing how clean my O2 sensor is at the end of the season. Even a local Yamaha dealer said (when I brought in the little barbell tube to match it up) I must be using RingFree when he saw how clean it was.
On the other hand, although it's expensive per quart, it's concentrated so a little goes a long way. I'm not going to debate the active ingredients in it as I think that needs a chemistry expert (which I am not!) to really tell the difference between it and something else. But just for giggles, I looked up the pricing of Seafoam and also RingFree (Domo online) and compared what it costs per gallon to use each. I found Seafoam at $7.50 per 16 oz and the instructions say it's good for 16 gallons (1 oz per gallon). Ringfree is $44 for 32 oz and treats 320 gallons (1 oz per 10 gallons).
Seafoam works out to be 47 cents per gallon and Ringfree is 14 cents per gallon... I'm happy using Ringfree
i am not a chemist, but i worked directly with one who works in a refinery. what i stated is what i was told in the context of being told not to waste money on bottles of techron or anything else. they all add something else, including things very similar to naptha, but the vast majority of the effectiveness of all these cleaners is the naptha, and seafoam has as much or more naptha as any other over the counter additive.
Doc Stressor
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Naphtha is just part of the solvent system used to keep the active components of a fuel system cleaner in solution. There are several different types of naphtha, but all are just petroleum distillate cuts that contain linear and cyclic hydrocarbon chains containing 12 or fewer carbon atoms. While these short-chain hydrocarbons are good cleaners when used in concentrated form, they don't do much of anything when diluted into gasoline, WHICH ALREADY CONTAINS NAPHTHA.
Seafoam works well as a cleaner and carbon remover when it is used as it was originally intended. That is, to shoot the straight stuff into the carb until the engine stalls and then let the engine sit for a while, which allows it to soak into solid carbon deposits. Starting the engine then allows the carbon to flash off out the exhaust producing copious amounts of smoke. Seafoam is mostly naphtha along with a heavier distillate cut that provides some lubrication to protect 2 stroke engines. Running Seafoam diluted with a little gasoline from a remote tank (the Dunk procedure) also seems to work well. But adding Seafoam to a tank of gas at the recommended dilution would do little to improve the cleaning properties of gasoline. I think this is just a marketing ploy as is the recommendation to add Seafoam to crankcase oil, which makes no sense to me at all. We have enough problems with fuel dilution in outboards.
Ringfree and Mercury Kwikleen are the same product. They were made by a subsidiary of Chevron and contain a concentrated form of Techron (polyetheramine or PEA) in a solvent mixture of naphtha and other distillates that are the same or similar to Seafoam. The solvent mixture is just a carrier and doesn't provide any significant cleaning action. PEO changes the structure of solid carbon combustion products as they form making them less likely to deposit on metal surfaces. When used at higher doses (shock treatments), Ringfree can remove some existing carbon deposits in cylinders and throughout the fuel system. You need to change the oil in a 4 stroke engine after doing a shock treatment, which is why Yamaha no longer recommends anybody except a certified dealer do the job. Most Techron formulations are now off patent, so other companies use them as additives in Top Tier gasolines. As long as you are using a Top Tier gasoline, you probably don't need to use Ringfree for every fillup. Yamaha recommends its use for insurance against poor quality gasoline. Since most Rec 90 fuels are unbranded, it is probably a good idea to add Ringfree most of the time. POAs are a proven technology that works very effectively.
Startron is an enigma to me. I once did a good bit of research trying to find out what it is and how it works. It contains naphtha and other petroleum distillates along with a proprietary "enzyme" that is supposed to prevent fuel oxidation (act as a stabilizer), prevent deposits from forming, and to remove existing engine deposits. My problem with this is that enzymes are proteins and all require some water or a hydrophilic solvent in order to work. I can't understand, from a chemistry perspective, how enzymes can work in pure gasoline. My research led me down a rabbit hole of chemistry gobbledygook. The technology seems to have originated from a Japanese company that talked about enzymes changing the structure of water and a bunch of crazy stuff that was either incomplete or just nuts. They may be using the term enzyme for catalyst, which them makes some sense. Regardless of my skepticism, many people swear that the stuff works.
With the possible exception of Startron, none of these additives contain anything that will stabilize fuel. For that, you need products that contain anti-oxidants and metal inactivators. Stabil is the oldest product sold for this purpose and as most people will tell you, it works as advertised. But there are other products with similar properties sold by engine manufacturers that all seem to work. Just be sure that the additive is a "fuel treatment" or "fuel conditioner" that is marketed to stabilize fuel for at least a year.
One final bit of information is that the "Plus" designation on Yamaha Ringfree and Fuel Stabilizer and Conditioner refers to a metal filmer additive that protects soft metals such as aluminum from corrosion. These were originally developed to protect fuel level sending units from ethanol-induced corrosion. They are added to protect outboard fuel system components such as the VST from corrosion. They prevent the dreaded white power from forming downstream from the main fuel filter and clogging up the VST filter.
Seafoam works well as a cleaner and carbon remover when it is used as it was originally intended. That is, to shoot the straight stuff into the carb until the engine stalls and then let the engine sit for a while, which allows it to soak into solid carbon deposits. Starting the engine then allows the carbon to flash off out the exhaust producing copious amounts of smoke. Seafoam is mostly naphtha along with a heavier distillate cut that provides some lubrication to protect 2 stroke engines. Running Seafoam diluted with a little gasoline from a remote tank (the Dunk procedure) also seems to work well. But adding Seafoam to a tank of gas at the recommended dilution would do little to improve the cleaning properties of gasoline. I think this is just a marketing ploy as is the recommendation to add Seafoam to crankcase oil, which makes no sense to me at all. We have enough problems with fuel dilution in outboards.
Ringfree and Mercury Kwikleen are the same product. They were made by a subsidiary of Chevron and contain a concentrated form of Techron (polyetheramine or PEA) in a solvent mixture of naphtha and other distillates that are the same or similar to Seafoam. The solvent mixture is just a carrier and doesn't provide any significant cleaning action. PEO changes the structure of solid carbon combustion products as they form making them less likely to deposit on metal surfaces. When used at higher doses (shock treatments), Ringfree can remove some existing carbon deposits in cylinders and throughout the fuel system. You need to change the oil in a 4 stroke engine after doing a shock treatment, which is why Yamaha no longer recommends anybody except a certified dealer do the job. Most Techron formulations are now off patent, so other companies use them as additives in Top Tier gasolines. As long as you are using a Top Tier gasoline, you probably don't need to use Ringfree for every fillup. Yamaha recommends its use for insurance against poor quality gasoline. Since most Rec 90 fuels are unbranded, it is probably a good idea to add Ringfree most of the time. POAs are a proven technology that works very effectively.
Startron is an enigma to me. I once did a good bit of research trying to find out what it is and how it works. It contains naphtha and other petroleum distillates along with a proprietary "enzyme" that is supposed to prevent fuel oxidation (act as a stabilizer), prevent deposits from forming, and to remove existing engine deposits. My problem with this is that enzymes are proteins and all require some water or a hydrophilic solvent in order to work. I can't understand, from a chemistry perspective, how enzymes can work in pure gasoline. My research led me down a rabbit hole of chemistry gobbledygook. The technology seems to have originated from a Japanese company that talked about enzymes changing the structure of water and a bunch of crazy stuff that was either incomplete or just nuts. They may be using the term enzyme for catalyst, which them makes some sense. Regardless of my skepticism, many people swear that the stuff works.
With the possible exception of Startron, none of these additives contain anything that will stabilize fuel. For that, you need products that contain anti-oxidants and metal inactivators. Stabil is the oldest product sold for this purpose and as most people will tell you, it works as advertised. But there are other products with similar properties sold by engine manufacturers that all seem to work. Just be sure that the additive is a "fuel treatment" or "fuel conditioner" that is marketed to stabilize fuel for at least a year.
One final bit of information is that the "Plus" designation on Yamaha Ringfree and Fuel Stabilizer and Conditioner refers to a metal filmer additive that protects soft metals such as aluminum from corrosion. These were originally developed to protect fuel level sending units from ethanol-induced corrosion. They are added to protect outboard fuel system components such as the VST from corrosion. They prevent the dreaded white power from forming downstream from the main fuel filter and clogging up the VST filter.
my personal belief is shock treatment is pretty much ineffective once you are carboned up. i did it years ago on a truck that had higher compression than factory when i bought it. an unbelievable amount of soot came out the exhaust after the first overnight soak. i used mopar decarbonizer and did it multiple times overnight until it did not smoke much. the compression did not change a lick.
a few months later i got a pinhole leak in a rad hose and boiled dry and cooked the head gasket. when i pulled the head, there was a thick layer of carbon on top of every cylinder you needed a chisel to remove except for the cylinder where the head gasket had blown, which was perfectly clean.
a few months later i got a pinhole leak in a rad hose and boiled dry and cooked the head gasket. when i pulled the head, there was a thick layer of carbon on top of every cylinder you needed a chisel to remove except for the cylinder where the head gasket had blown, which was perfectly clean.
Doc Stressor
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I don't know anything about Star Tron RIng Clean Plus other than it says that it contains the latest technology for deposit control in addition to their enzyme formulation. Since many PEA formulations are now off patent, that's probably what they are using like just about everybody else. But that's only speculation.
A problem with all of these fuel system additives is the lack of available independent laboratory tests. While there are some amateur product comparisons out there along with tests done by the individual manufacturers, there is no unbiased data. Just like motor oils, the industry doesn't want product comparisons where their own product may show results that are not as good as another brand.
While there are lots of testimonials for each product saying that they work great, these interpretations are limited by the fact that most engines run fine without additives. Under most conditions, as long good quality gasoline is used and the engine is used on a regular basis, there are rarely any fuel related issues. So many folks using additives attribute their lack of problems to whatever additive they are using.
With poor (or uncertain) quality fuel, infrequent use of a boat, and extreme weather conditions (high humidity and large temperature variations), additives can be beneficial. But whether one is superior to the others is just not known.
The best available information comes from peer-reviewed literature. But only the major oil companies publish actual data and formulations of their products. And this information only becomes available years after the product has been in use. That's where I learned about PEA technology. Chevron scientists and engineers actually publish their data on successful products. Smaller operators rely on testimonials and never publish data. So some may be snake oil and you'll never know it.
A problem with all of these fuel system additives is the lack of available independent laboratory tests. While there are some amateur product comparisons out there along with tests done by the individual manufacturers, there is no unbiased data. Just like motor oils, the industry doesn't want product comparisons where their own product may show results that are not as good as another brand.
While there are lots of testimonials for each product saying that they work great, these interpretations are limited by the fact that most engines run fine without additives. Under most conditions, as long good quality gasoline is used and the engine is used on a regular basis, there are rarely any fuel related issues. So many folks using additives attribute their lack of problems to whatever additive they are using.
With poor (or uncertain) quality fuel, infrequent use of a boat, and extreme weather conditions (high humidity and large temperature variations), additives can be beneficial. But whether one is superior to the others is just not known.
The best available information comes from peer-reviewed literature. But only the major oil companies publish actual data and formulations of their products. And this information only becomes available years after the product has been in use. That's where I learned about PEA technology. Chevron scientists and engineers actually publish their data on successful products. Smaller operators rely on testimonials and never publish data. So some may be snake oil and you'll never know it.
Parthery
GreatGrady Captain
Doc,
Great explanation on additives and treatments. I enjoyed your post and found it quite informative.
Great explanation on additives and treatments. I enjoyed your post and found it quite informative.
Good info, thanks Doc!
As luck would have it, I was looking through a boating mag and came across an ad for Chevron Techron Marine. I have no idea if this is new to the market or not, but it is advertised as a cleaner and a stabilizer. https://www.chevronlubricants.com/en_us/home/products/techron-marine.html
As luck would have it, I was looking through a boating mag and came across an ad for Chevron Techron Marine. I have no idea if this is new to the market or not, but it is advertised as a cleaner and a stabilizer. https://www.chevronlubricants.com/en_us/home/products/techron-marine.html
Doc Stressor
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Chevron Techron Marine just came out a few months ago:
Techron Marine
It seems to be a nice combination product that contains both the Techron anti-deposit formulation along with a fuel stabilizer. At a treat ratio of 1 oz per 10 gallons, it beats adding both a fuel treatment like Ringfree and a stabilizer like Sta Bil separately. The only place that I could find it was West Marine. At their price for the 10 oz bottle, it comes out to about $0.14 per gallon of treated fuel. That isn't bad for a product from a major chemical company that can actually afford to do a lot of product testing during development. It's supposed to be $10.49 at Walmart for the 10 oz bottle, but I haven't found it there yet at my local store.
I'm going to go with this stuff after my supply of Ringfree and Sta Bil runs out.
Techron Marine
It seems to be a nice combination product that contains both the Techron anti-deposit formulation along with a fuel stabilizer. At a treat ratio of 1 oz per 10 gallons, it beats adding both a fuel treatment like Ringfree and a stabilizer like Sta Bil separately. The only place that I could find it was West Marine. At their price for the 10 oz bottle, it comes out to about $0.14 per gallon of treated fuel. That isn't bad for a product from a major chemical company that can actually afford to do a lot of product testing during development. It's supposed to be $10.49 at Walmart for the 10 oz bottle, but I haven't found it there yet at my local store.
I'm going to go with this stuff after my supply of Ringfree and Sta Bil runs out.
Fishtales
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Dealer uses stor-n-start as grady23 says. I tend to run ring free (double dose) 1st tank and then either standard treatment or skip. For years I never used RF and never had an issue. I buy the case every year from Domo-Online thinking $200 I'll never see again, but I guess it is worth it.