Not a grady question but you guys know a bunch so

[Doc Stressor]

I got a broken rib from a snap roll in a World Cat. They (and other cats) are very popular in the Gulf of Mexico where they eat up the short choppy seas that are common. I've been on several and I personally don't like them. They are a great stable fishing platform but the handling is squirrely. Some are more predictable than others, but they all suffer from the same limitation: They ride fine until seas increase to a point where they no longer ride fine. Then you have a problem. They sneeze in a head sea and get thrown around in a beam or a following sea. I have no idea how they would handle the Pacific with short wind waves on top of rollers.

In a big sea, I'd rather be in a V hull that can run solid and track straight at low speed.

Be sure to sea trial the World Cat under worst-case scenario conditions. You could be in for a big surprise otherwise.

As for your feet, why don't you use a suspension seat like most other guys who run offshore in the Pacific? I even had one on my 17' Silver Streak that I used in the Pacific when I lived on the West Coast.

 

[Ryhlick]

Going fast comfortably in our afternoon chop is pretty much none existent. Spend all the money you want but there is no way to go fast in our chop without your crew hating you and or a few ft shorter because of all the pound you took from the hull. Sure get a 65ft boat, but that is only going to make 25knts WOT. Hell, get a cigarette boat and go 65 knots, the boat will break in half in the Pacific (pretty sure you can find the Youtube video of the cigarette boat off Ocean beach that broke in half trying to run too fast in the slop). Unfortunately there is no magic boat for our waters or for your application.

Good news you'll have some nasty weather to test the 320 tomorrow in Bodega. Don't forget to test out trolling in the slop so you can hear the hull slap of cat's...it maybe a none issue to you but have heard others hate it.

I have two suggestions that I'm hoping you won't look over:

-take a few captain classes and learn how to run your boat correctly, much cheaper/easier then $350k on something that will not fix what your looking for. There's a reason your current boat is one of the most popular boats in CA, it's a little tank.
-purchase a downeast hull with an inboard diesel running at 18 knts...Set your AP, kick your feet up and drink your coffee.

Best piece of advice yet...

 

[glacierbaze]

I agree with Tunahunter that the best bang for your buck is hiring a captain for a day, who has a lot of experience driving vee hulls. It may sound insulting to some, but you have admitted yourself that you are self taught, due to Covid restrictions, and you are the only person I know who runs their boat with the engine trimmed all the way down.
Whether it is your own boat, or you are test driving others, I suggest that you take turns often, and whenever you have the boat to where you like it, have the other person take over without changing anything, and then see if they can improve the ride, and how they do it.
Note 2 things when you switch drivers, comfort and miles per gallon, if the boat has a fuel meter.

 

[magicalbill]

I will have to disagree with you there for the fact that we must run our boats differently. I stand by my statement. In 2ft chop, running the right speed and trim... you should barely even feel it. I can tell you at a true 2ft chop, I don't even use the tabs and slowing down typically creates a harsher ride. The right outboard trim and speed is all that is needed for us in that chop.

I would agree that we probably run our rigs differently. This is an example where I would enjoy climbing aboard your Marlin and riding along, or vice-versa.

It is hard to describe one’s version of a “rough ride” or a “smooth ride” in print. You really have to be aboard, in the moment.This is certainly why Lucky should do multiple test rides from here on out as Dennis, myself and others have suggested.

 

[Keitha]

A buddy of mine had a cat (pretty sure it was a World Cat) a number of years back. I remember his thought was that the boat did great in chop, but he Hated driving it in swell.

Lucky, Just to get another data-point on how these boats handle, I would be happy to take you out on my Gulfstream if you come on down to Orange County. We typically see the same snotty afternoon weather that you do.

 

[GEII]

you really should try to get a ride on a CAT. Buzzards Bay in Ma has a lot of constant chop during and that is where I would see the CATs the most. There is a reason. When I was returning in the chop in the afternoon from offshore (New England sounds similar to SF) on my Marlin, my Marlin would bounce some primarily because I was pushing the speed. The Marlin bounce was much softer than the Seafarer bang due to length and weight. Never had a stiff back. If I were in your shoes, I would get a 32 or 35 Carolina Classic. They would just plow right by me in tough sea conditions heading back to port from offshore. Nothing can beat a heavy diesel boat. The diesels sportfishers seem the most popular with the offshore guys That said, the CAT may do the trick. Good Luck!

 

[Mustang65fbk]

I think one of the most important questions would be what is your budget when shopping for a boat? I think just about any new reputable boat that's over 30' in length is probably going to start or be very close to $500k. You could look into the Boston Whaler's like the 325 or the 345 Conquest, but again they typically start around half a million dollars. So a lot of it depends on what your budget is and how much you are willing to spend. And I agree with what others have said, there might not be a perfect boat out there for you no matter how much money you spend.

 

[luckydude]

I agree with Tunahunter that the best bang for your buck is hiring a captain for a day, who has a lot of experience driving vee hulls. It may sound insulting to some, but you have admitted yourself that you are self taught, due to Covid restrictions, and you are the only person I know who runs their boat with the engine trimmed all the way down.

There really isn't much difference between a trimmed forward engine and a little trim tab both sides, they are both pushing the bow down and the stern up. There is a Grady trim tab video on youtube where they say to do what I do it. For most conditions, the boat is happy with the engine there. Sometimes, usually a following sea with short frequency swells, it wants to be trimmed back to get the bow up. Sometimes it wants to be all the way forward and also add some tab, I tend to do that to try and stay on plane at slower speeds in lumpy conditions.

While I'm sure I have plenty to learn, I'm pretty sure I'm running my 228 about the way it is intended to be run.

I've been out with experienced captains who thought I was doing just fine. I'm always happy to educated but the advice here is mostly "slow down". Which is what I don't want to do at the end of the day when my feet hurt and I just want to get home.

 

[SkunkBoat]

stay in the bay or take up golf & ride in a cart.

 

[luckydude]

stay in the bay or take up golf & ride in a cart.

Most excellent advice, why didn't I think of that?

 

[glacierbaze]

There really isn't much difference between a trimmed forward engine and a little trim tab both sides, they are both pushing the bow down and the stern up. There is a Grady trim tab video on youtube where they say to do what I do it. For most conditions, the boat is happy with the engine there. Sometimes, usually a following sea with short frequency swells, it wants to be trimmed back to get the bow up. Sometimes it wants to be all the way forward and also add some tab, I tend to do that to try and stay on plane at slower speeds in lumpy conditions.

While I'm sure I have plenty to learn, I'm pretty sure I'm running my 228 about the way it is intended to be run.

I've been out with experienced captains who thought I was doing just fine. I'm always happy to educated but the advice here is mostly "slow down". Which is what I don't want to do at the end of the day when my feet hurt and I just want to get home.

Lucky, I know that we are beating a dead horse, talking about engine trim, but that is just not accurate. Your boat runs best with the prop thrust parallel to the overall surface of the water, disregarding waves and chop. With the engine matched to the boat, you can run with the prop parallel, and lift the bow a good amount. When you exceed that limit, the bow falls to the water, the prop is angled down, and it lifts the bow again, as it tries to once again get parallel, and drops it again, continuously, in what we call porpoising. The sweet spot is that range where it can elevate the bow to some degree, and still main parallel thrust.
Trimmed all the way in, the prop thrust is always downward, because it can not drive the boat deep enough into the water to get parallel, due to the buoyancy of the bow.
With trim tabs, you can bring the bow down far enough to cut the chop, and still trim the engine to where the prop thrust is parallel, and the most efficient.
I watched the Grady captain, trim tab, YouTube video that you refer to, when you posted it in another thread, and not once did he ever say to run a boat with the engine trimmed all the way in.
I have sympathy for your foot problems, but unfortunately, no solutions. You do catch better fish than I do, I’ll give you that. Curious whether you drive seated, or standing, on that homeward trip? I almost never sit when driving in the ocean.

 

[luckydude]

Lucky, I know that we are beating a dead horse, talking about engine trim, but that is just not accurate. Your boat runs best with the prop thrust parallel to the overall surface of the water, disregarding waves and chop. With the engine matched to the boat, you can run with the prop parallel, and lift the bow a good amount. When you exceed that limit, the bow falls to the water, the prop is angled down, and it lifts the bow again, as it tries to once again get parallel, and drops it again, continuously, in what we call porpoising. The sweet spot is that range where it can elevate the bow to some degree, and still main parallel thrust.
Trimmed all the way in, the prop thrust is always downward, because it can not drive the boat deep enough into the water to get parallel, due to the buoyancy of the bow.
With trim tabs, you can bring the bow down far enough to cut the chop, and still trim the engine to where the prop thrust is parallel, and the most efficient.
I watched the Grady captain, trim tab, YouTube video that you refer to, when you posted it in another thread, and not once did he ever say to run a boat with the engine trimmed all the way in.
I have sympathy for your foot problems, but unfortunately, no solutions. You do catch better fish than I do, I’ll give you that. Curious whether you drive seated, or standing, on that homeward trip? I almost never sit when driving in the ocean.

At 1:35 "Personally I'd much rather use the engine to control the attitude of the boat"

I drive mostly standing but when my feet are screaming I'll get on the seat for a bit.

 

[Paul_A]

I ran a 27 world cat cc for 7 years in the gom and have fished the 29 several times. I have never driven a 320 but I'm sure it only gets better because, well, it's bigger.

In my experience cats eat closely spaced chop and if you do manage to launch it the landing is surprisingly soft.

I never had an issue in a following sea, or any sea for that matter. You'll quickly learn that with a cat you trim the motors up till the props start barking and then down a touch. That solves most any issue unless you are going too slow.

Test drive one with an experienced captain and let us know what you think.

 

[glacierbaze]

Yes, he said that, and I agree with him, but he is running his boat in that sweet spot that I talked about above, where the bow is slightly up, and the prop thrust is parallel. I stand by my statement, that he never recommended running a boat with the engine trimmed all the way in.
He said something before that, about using the tabs to control bow rise, which was poorly worded. Tabs can only push, or hold the bow down, they cannot lift it. Tabs control the stern of the boat, what the bow does is merely a reaction. Running on flat water, as he was, with no tab other than correcting the port list, the only thing that will raise the bow is trimming the engine out. Back in that sweet spot.

 

[luckydude]

Yes, he said that, and I agree with him, but he is running his boat in that sweet spot that I talked about above, where the bow is slightly up, and the prop thrust is parallel. I stand by my statement, that he never recommended running a boat with the engine trimmed all the way in.
He said something before that, about using the tabs to control bow rise, which was poorly worded. Tabs can only push, or hold the bow down, they cannot lift it. Tabs control the stern of the boat, what the bow does is merely a reaction. Running on flat water, as he was, with no tab other than correcting the port list, the only thing that will raise the bow is trimming the engine out. Back in that sweet spot.

If you watch that whole video he is absolutely saying use your engines to control how the boat rides in the water. Watch it again from 1:35 to the end, if you don't get that he is saying trim the boat with the engine, I don't know what to say.

And I've followed his advice and it works great. I've actually played around with running the engine trimmed the way you want, yeah, I get .1mpg better fuel economy. But then you need the tabs to do what the engine was doing and there goes my .1mpg.

I mostly use tabs to correct list. In really lumpy conditions on my 228, engine trimmed in is not enough, then I add some tabs.

I'd challenge you to get on my boat and do a better job. If you could, I'd learn something and I'm all for that. I'd be shocked if you made a 5% difference to how the boat rides. I'm an engineer, I love thinking about stuff and tinkering with it to make it better. I've done that with my boat, there could be room for improvement but not a lot. I'd absolutely love it if you got on my boat and schooled me. That would save me a pile of money.

 

[luckydude]

I ran a 27 world cat cc for 7 years in the gom and have fished the 29 several times. I have never driven a 320 but I'm sure it only gets better because, well, it's bigger.

In my experience cats eat closely spaced chop and if you do manage to launch it the landing is surprisingly soft.

I never had an issue in a following sea, or any sea for that matter. You'll quickly learn that with a cat you trim the motors up till the props start barking and then down a touch. That solves most any issue unless you are going too slow.

Test drive one with an experienced captain and let us know what you think.

Thanks for this, all the nay sayers were getting me down. All I want is a fast warm comfy ride home and I think the Cat might provide that. Getting on one this weekend, I'll report back.

And to all the people saying you need to drive a Marlin and a World Cat in the slop, do you have any idea how hard it is to line that up? I'm not an idiot, of course that is what I want to do. People have jobs, they are busy. Weather gets calm every time I want to do a test drive. I'd love to live in world where I could go out in the chop for test drives at the drop of the hat but even with me paying for everything, it's hard to get on a boat.

 

[SkunkBoat]

At 1:35 "Personally I'd much rather use the engine to control the attitude of the boat"

I drive mostly standing but when my feet are screaming I'll get on the seat for a bit.

nowhere in that video did he say run with the engine trimmed all in. He said he preferred to "use the motors to control the trim of the boat" and "tabs cause drag"..
Seems I've said that too. Many boats can be operated just fine without trim tabs. But if you run on plane with the motor trimmed way in, you are just wrong. Having the entire lower unit below the hull causes drag and makes the boat squirrelly. I honestly don't know but think maybe you are not actually doing what you have described several times because it just does not work.

As for ride of a Marlin vs what you have there is 120% chance that the 30 ft Marlin will ride better in the same sea conditions. There is 100% chance that you will take the Marlin out in conditions that you would never contemplate in your current boat. And when you do you will find the point where the ride sucks and you can't go fast as you want. I've been offshore in a 50' Ocean and got the shikickedouttame. I've been on a 560' destroyer and got the shikickedouttame. Its all relative.

Catamaran hulls (displacement and planing) have their pluses... but I suspect there are some good reasons why they don't dominate the market.

 

[luckydude]

nowhere in that video did he say run with the engine trimmed all in. He said he preferred to "use the motors to control the trim of the boat" and "tabs cause drag"..
Seems I've said that too. Many boats can be operated just fine without trim tabs. But if you run on plane with the motor trimmed way in, you are just wrong.

I have 1400 miles on my 228's 250hp, 99% of those with the engine trimmed all the way forward because there is where I like it. The boat works really well with it there. The difference in how the boat drives with my single engine trimmed forward vs straight up and down is just a little bit more of the bow down which is what I want. You said it will be squirrely, people said that about the swim platform as well, it's fine. I grew up in Wisconsin, if you want squirrely try driving on black ice that is covered with a layer of powder snow.

Maybe you are used to some engine that has an acute angle when trimmed all the way forward, I dunno. On my boat, with my engine, I'm not "just wrong" at all, it is trimmed maybe 5-10 degrees forward.

Go watch the video again from 1:35 to the end and come back and tell me that I'm wrong. I don't see how you can watch that and understand what he is saying and not get it.

All that said, I don't want to argue the point any more, I feel like I'm being a douche. I love this forum and don't want to be "that guy", this forum has been nice and helpful to me for years so I'll just let this go.

 

[glacierbaze]

I agree, Lucky. Like I said, we're beating a dead horse in this discussion, and this is my last mention of it.

 

[Summertop511]

Sounds like you need a 31 Bertram or something similar.

Big heavy center weight with a deep V cutting through everything.

All outboards inherently have a ride on top of water vs inboards that ride deeper in the water on plane.