Self bailing cockpit scuppers

[Gibsonsky]

Bought a 1988 204 Fisherman center console, got it in the water Manhasset Bay mid August (by the time DMV got reg done). "Neighboring waters" looks like from your avatar Northport?
Powered with a Honda 150 4 stroke along with 2 batteries put the scuppers just below waterline. Bilge hatch is somewhat sealed and has old pop out access port which i'll be replacing before next season. Kept the boat docked, and every time before we launched i'de flip the manual bilge pump switch to drain out whatever water accumulated. Theres always about an inch of water covering the access hatch. Quickly got out of the habit of plugging the flapper scuppers after last plane when I was home, it was pouring, and I was asking myself: Did I leave them plugged or not due to pending rain, lol.

 

[jkunze]

Bought a 1988 204 Fisherman center console, got it in the water Manhasset Bay mid August (by the time DMV got reg done). "Neighboring waters" looks like from your avatar Northport?
Powered with a Honda 150 4 stroke along with 2 batteries put the scuppers just below waterline. Bilge hatch is somewhat sealed and has old pop out access port which i'll be replacing before next season. Kept the boat docked, and every time before we launched i'de flip the manual bilge pump switch to drain out whatever water accumulated. Theres always about an inch of water covering the access hatch. Quickly got out of the habit of plugging the flapper scuppers after last plane when I was home, it was pouring, and I was asking myself: Did I leave them plugged or not due to pending rain, lol.

Sounds like we have the same boats & yes that is the Northport lilco stacks in my avatar.
I got my boat in June boat & it has mostly kept it on a trailer for years. Regardless Im certain we both have some moisture in the transom plywood & that adds water weight. I think a little is better than a lot in this case. It's just the age & design of the hulls. Mine does not seem terrible & I know its been used on & off a trailer for quite a while. Hope yours is a drier boat as well & hope mine is as dry as I hope. Lol, that said.... still a great fishing boat.
an old trick is to drill a hole low on the transom & one at the top. Leave it all offseason at the very least. See what comes out the bottom hole. A hot sunny day will aid in this by heating the moisture enough to increase any seepage. You will see some most likely. Epoxy will plug these holes quite well & the epoxy drives moisture back when it cures so the holes will seal well. Just plug the holes on a cloudy or cooler day. I had a whaler for years & most older ones have some stage of wet transom. It can be inevitable.
i did some research online & came across some pics of a similar boat with the waterline painted straight through the middle of the scuppers. I’m sure across the that is the correct location & the evidence of an actual water line of the one i saw looked to be right at the bottom of the scuppers as well. I think that was a 204c overnighter though & they look to have much more bow weight than ours due to the cabin structure. That probably always caused the 204 fisherman to sit ass low. Same hulls, different centers of gravity.
Mine came to me painted across the top edge of the scuppers, actual waterline at rest with a full tank is right at the painted waterline. So I keep the plugs in mostly but not when fishing. Lol, boots required. I also have now sealed down the hatches & replaced the round plates with new sealed screw down type. The deck must be sealed at the floor hatches.
The drains are large diameter, 1-1/4”. If the bilge stays empty the boat stays buoyant & the floor will wash out as it lowest point, at the stern. If you’ve ever seen an old wooden fishing vessel they used a wash deck like this too. It’s an age old design. Just keep the over wash out of the bilge below as it adds weight & the small pump can’t compensate for too much Water coming over the back in snotty seas.
Now for the scuppers themselves. I purchased a set of the flapper type. I then after looking at them & reading others opinions decided to go ahead & get the ball types instead. I understand that the ball type keeps a lot of the nuisance back flow through the scuppers out when at mooring. The flaps will inevitably fail to seal well & the boat will stay wet due to that.
i ordered the good ones though, I hope. I opted for the flow master ones that have a two piece design that allows for them to be easily removed. This is important for hosing out the boat on the trailer & keeping leaves from collecting in the drain tubes. After all a boat on a driveway is nothing but a large gutter most days. If I can leave them off at home the leaves wash right out too. Also when docked for the season you can take them off to clean the scum off from time to time or they will begin to clog in no time. Toss the crab legs over board & off the floor too. Lol, my buddy likes to bring potatoe chips fishing & they’ll clog the ball types. Keep them cleaned out & they should work as designed.
The boat is designed to take wash either over the bow while under power or over the transom perhaps while drifting in rough seas. It will, in theory, wash immediately out the four transom large scuppers. The floor needs to be sealed tight for this to work correctly. Rain water washes out as well.
The previous owner gave it to me with the hatch loose & unsealed, with four plugs in the scuppers. that’s just not good idea with this hull design at all.

 

[seasick]

If you have wet foam, that doesn't dry out all that quickly. I don't know if that is a factor in your case. Even a soaked transom can sit on land for years and still be wet. Think of the situation of a plastic bottle of water that has a cap on it. If there is no drier air flow and a way for moisture to escape, years later the bottle will still have water in it.
Old multi-layered ottom paint can add weight to a hull, perhaps more than you might expect but probably not enough to drop the water line 2 inches as it seems yours has. Your comment on how long it took to drain the bilge is interesting. a 750 GPH pump in the real world won't move pump at that rate. Let's assume is runs at half capacity or 375 GPH. If it took 30 minutes at the dock to drain the bilge, that equates to almost 190 gallons of water. I would also assume that while you were trying to get back to the dock, the pump was working full time. I am not sure it was just the backwash into the motor well. I wonder if when submerged, your scupper plumbing has a leak. Fairly easy to check if you plug the deck drains and force water into the scuppers from the outside. Look for leaks in the fittings and hoses. If you also have straight drains from the motor well through the transom ( brass tubes), those tubes may be corroded and leaking water into the transom.
I am 99.9% certain, that originally, those scuppers sat above the water line.

 

[jkunze]

If you have wet foam, that doesn't dry out all that quickly. I don't know if that is a factor in your case. Even a soaked transom can sit on land for years and still be wet. Think of the situation of a plastic bottle of water that has a cap on it. If there is no drier air flow and a way for moisture to escape, years later the bottle will still have water in it.
Old multi-layered ottom paint can add weight to a hull, perhaps more than you might expect but probably not enough to drop the water line 2 inches as it seems yours has. Your comment on how long it took to drain the bilge is interesting. a 750 GPH pump in the real world won't move pump at that rate. Let's assume is runs at half capacity or 375 GPH. If it took 30 minutes at the dock to drain the bilge, that equates to almost 190 gallons of water. I would also assume that while you were trying to get back to the dock, the pump was working full time. I am not sure it was just the backwash into the motor well. I wonder if when submerged, your scupper plumbing has a leak. Fairly easy to check if you plug the deck drains and force water into the scuppers from the outside. Look for leaks in the fittings and hoses. If you also have straight drains from the motor well through the transom ( brass tubes), those tubes may be corroded and leaking water into the transom.
I am 99.9% certain, that originally, those scuppers sat above the water line.

You’re correct. Soaked plywood within the transom will not dry out. If it’s terribly soaked though & at the end of the season, the holes will indicate how actual water is inside of it. I’ve seen a few videos of the transom being torn out & they are in a varied state of decay. Some completely gone & some just rotten in areas where there were penetrations or cracks. I imagine that even a moisture reading only tells you the moisture content of where the probe penetrates. The bottom of the plywood, in a thoroughly rotten Transom I would expect to be the softest & wettest area, if not gone completely.
my transom does not appear soft or deformed. A wrap test with a metal rod sounds good to me as well, lol but I’m not an expert, just a woodworker. No doubt a hopeful one at that.
The drain tubes are in great shape & I got no water leaking out of the four screw holes at each scupper. Surely a good sign. I also learned a trick with my whalers & blew some compressed air at the scupper screw holes. They are close enough to each other that if there was considerable rot behind them some water would have seeped out of adjacent holes. Again, that gave me hope that I’m not soft top to bottom & that the scupper holes are solid.
i agree I have some weight from a wet transom but I think it’s primarily at the aluminum angle edge trim plate & some other penetrations. The hull drain plug seems tight, but who knows there.
I can’t help but think that the hull has a different center of balance than that of the overnighter. There must be more bow weight to that boat. Both are the same hull with a different top liner. Who knows but just my opinion.
regardless I must sit lower than originally built.
the hull does not leak when at the dock. I did have it in the water for about two weeks at my buddy’s house on the south shore this summer. The back wash we experienced recently was while my buddy & I were drifting eels in the sound. He brings a lot of gear that he sat in the two back corners & insists on standing at the motor to fish. With that floor hatch loose & the old ball scuppers partially clogged the floor filled fast atone point. Two or three deep swells & a passing boat is what caused us to leave for home. My bilge pump also had debris around its base.
I’ll never leave that floor hatch unsealed again & I will be much more diligent about the scuppers being cleaned. The plugs help when the family is aboard in calm waters & it is kept on a trailer, not at a dock or mooring.
this all said I don’t want to think about replacing the transom core but perhaps that is what will be needed someday. Right now I have second thoughts about upgrading to a fourstroke due to added weight. Good thing the current motor is very healthy, though a gas guzzler. I’ll hopefully get a few good years from her & then perhaps I’ll cut her open one day. Don’t want to think about that yet though.

 

[seasick]

It seems like you have looked at a lot of possible causes. I might 'suggest' next time that your buddy stows some of his gear a bit more forward. I too have a fishing buddy who brings a tackle bag that is so heavy I can barely lift it. My buddy is no lightweight either
On a positive note, down the road take a look at the Yamaha I4 200 hp motor. It is a very good replacement for hulls that originally had 2 stroke 150s. The weigh is very close. Also note that on my 208, when I carry extra passengers aft, a true sigh that the scupper flaps need replacing is the amount of water that seeps into the deck. I am pretty sure my 208 sits lower than it did years ago. Exactly why is unknown. The bilge is usually bone dry. That said, every spring when I launch it, as it backs down the ramp ( and as a result tilts way back) the bilge pump dumps out a lot of water that apparently pools in the front of the hull. I used to worry about it but not any more. I think water gets in through the anchor locker lid, drains into the forward bilge but doesn't drain aft until the hull is at a pretty acute angle.

 

[jkunze]

It seems like you have looked at a lot of possible causes. I might 'suggest' next time that your buddy stows some of his gear a bit more forward. I too have a fishing buddy who brings a tackle bag that is so heavy I can barely lift it. My buddy is no lightweight either
On a positive note, down the road take a look at the Yamaha I4 200 hp motor. It is a very good replacement for hulls that originally had 2 stroke 150s. The weigh is very close. Also note that on my 208, when I carry extra passengers aft, a true sigh that the scupper flaps need replacing is the amount of water that seeps into the deck. I am pretty sure my 208 sits lower than it did years ago. Exactly why is unknown. The bilge is usually bone dry. That said, every spring when I launch it, as it backs down the ramp ( and as a result tilts way back) the bilge pump dumps out a lot of water that apparently pools in the front of the hull. I used to worry about it but not any more. I think water gets in through the anchor locker lid, drains into the forward bilge but doesn't drain aft until the hull is at a pretty acute angle.

Thank you. I noticed this too. In fact I have my boat on the driveway with the bow raised quite high right now. I put a cinder block Under the trailer jack to raise the bow. All water has drained back & out it seems. Been a couple days & she’s showing no water in the bilge. Normally a little stays in there if I don’t raise it. My Whaler certainly has a flatter hull.

 

[Sdfish]

JK - you may want to consider adding a second bilge pump a little higher. I added another one in mine for a piece of mind, also another separate outflow. I had a thread on here somewhere about it if you want to read up on it .