So did the survey on a 2006 Sailfish 282 today. Everything was pretty much in order and easily can be dealt with. One big show stopping issue right now is the hard top is shot. De-laminated and very wet. Any suggestions? What is the hard top cored with, I think balsa? Any idea on the replacement cost? Should I attempt repair? Need some real help on this one. Dealer is contacting GW and not sure what will come of that. I need to be prepared for alternatives in case GW does not help. Surveyor says if it is balsa then it has to be replaced. Wish is was foam core because he thinks it would be a better scenario. Also we noticed some brown water running out of the hard top so rot is setting in.
Survey Issue Today Suggestions Needed on Hard Top Rotting
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Fishtales
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Re: Survey Issue Today Suggestions Needed on Hard Top Rottin
Hi,
Unfortunately tt is balsa cored. The previous owner must have not sealed something mounted on the top for that to happen.
Regardless, you have a few options:
1.) Try to repair - I'd say no to this. You will never fix it.
2.) Order a new one from the factory - good option if someone else is paying, probably not the best if you are or replace with a locally fabricated one.
3.) Since this is a 06 and it is a survey (I assume you are buying), I'd tell them you want a new factory top and the deal is contingent upon it. People can't be lined up to buy and you have the leverage at this point.
Good Luck.
Hi,
Unfortunately tt is balsa cored. The previous owner must have not sealed something mounted on the top for that to happen.
Regardless, you have a few options:
1.) Try to repair - I'd say no to this. You will never fix it.
2.) Order a new one from the factory - good option if someone else is paying, probably not the best if you are or replace with a locally fabricated one.
3.) Since this is a 06 and it is a survey (I assume you are buying), I'd tell them you want a new factory top and the deal is contingent upon it. People can't be lined up to buy and you have the leverage at this point.
Good Luck.
Re: Survey Issue Today Suggestions Needed on Hard Top Rottin
I am guessing this repair could cost a bit like $4k and that would make the boat not such a great deal. The broker is a GW dealer so he is calling the factory. I am thinking that they installed all of the gear on this top so they probably are the ones who did not seal the holes properly. Not sure really who is to blame but it is scary that they installed Outriggers this spring on this top and it had to be wet then and they did not fix it or address it. Nothing was every told to me until I discovered it.
I am guessing this repair could cost a bit like $4k and that would make the boat not such a great deal. The broker is a GW dealer so he is calling the factory. I am thinking that they installed all of the gear on this top so they probably are the ones who did not seal the holes properly. Not sure really who is to blame but it is scary that they installed Outriggers this spring on this top and it had to be wet then and they did not fix it or address it. Nothing was every told to me until I discovered it.
Re: Survey Issue Today Suggestions Needed on Hard Top Rottin
You got me thinking cause I just started noticing some brown water getting into my overhead box. Can't find the leak but thinking I'll just go ahead and reseal everything. Must be a screw hole above the box. Had no idea the top was balsa wood. I had the floor above the fuels tanks start to get soft and had a fiberglass guy take it off remove the wood and re-epoxy (this time with no wood). Good as new, solid and wasn't too expensive. I'm thinking it was $700 or less. Perhaps you can do the same with the top????
You got me thinking cause I just started noticing some brown water getting into my overhead box. Can't find the leak but thinking I'll just go ahead and reseal everything. Must be a screw hole above the box. Had no idea the top was balsa wood. I had the floor above the fuels tanks start to get soft and had a fiberglass guy take it off remove the wood and re-epoxy (this time with no wood). Good as new, solid and wasn't too expensive. I'm thinking it was $700 or less. Perhaps you can do the same with the top????
Re: Survey Issue Today Suggestions Needed on Hard Top Rottin
Funny you mention the fuel tank cover. Great feature of the boat for replacement. Also the worst weakness in the deck. Surveyor said to do exactly what you did before it ever gets bad or cracked. It will be a cheap repair upfront and a very costly one if you let it go. You are right on track.
No one apparently uses epoxy yet it is mentioned all over the boards. Crazy so much for professionals.
We thought about your idea to have it re-cored but it is too late for this top the surveyor believes. I have also contacted Fastech tops to see what they may have for a solution. I can reuse the aluminum thank god with the price of metal now. I am thinking that maybe they can fabricate a new one using the old as a starting point. I can tell you if i go that route no wood core.
grady28 said:
Funny you mention the fuel tank cover. Great feature of the boat for replacement. Also the worst weakness in the deck. Surveyor said to do exactly what you did before it ever gets bad or cracked. It will be a cheap repair upfront and a very costly one if you let it go. You are right on track.
No one apparently uses epoxy yet it is mentioned all over the boards. Crazy so much for professionals.
We thought about your idea to have it re-cored but it is too late for this top the surveyor believes. I have also contacted Fastech tops to see what they may have for a solution. I can reuse the aluminum thank god with the price of metal now. I am thinking that maybe they can fabricate a new one using the old as a starting point. I can tell you if i go that route no wood core.
Fishtales
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Re: Survey Issue Today Suggestions Needed on Hard Top Rottin
Hi
I'd ask the dealer how much to replace the top (removal and installation included) and remount all the electronics, hard top rod holders and outriggers if you want them. Then make your offer less that amount or make it part of the deal that they do the repair. Make the offer and walk away if they say no. They will call you. This is the time to buy and you have the leveage. If they don't deal now, they are holding the boat through the winter. I'd also have them throw in storage and winterization.
Hi
I'd ask the dealer how much to replace the top (removal and installation included) and remount all the electronics, hard top rod holders and outriggers if you want them. Then make your offer less that amount or make it part of the deal that they do the repair. Make the offer and walk away if they say no. They will call you. This is the time to buy and you have the leveage. If they don't deal now, they are holding the boat through the winter. I'd also have them throw in storage and winterization.
Re: Survey Issue Today Suggestions Needed on Hard Top Rottin
That was the first question out of my mouth when the sales guy tried to push me for a what do you expect from the seller? How much does is the repair going to cost? Anyone know what they get for just the fiberglass part of the top?
Fishtales said:
That was the first question out of my mouth when the sales guy tried to push me for a what do you expect from the seller? How much does is the repair going to cost? Anyone know what they get for just the fiberglass part of the top?
Re: Survey Issue Today Suggestions Needed on Hard Top Rottin
With the boat being a 2006, I think there's probably a good chance GW will cover it. If not, I would consider only the following 3 options.
1. Dealer/seller foots the bill and gets it fixed.
2. Knock the repair cost off the agreed upon price and you fix it or get it fixed.
3. You walk away.
With the boat being a 2006, I think there's probably a good chance GW will cover it. If not, I would consider only the following 3 options.
1. Dealer/seller foots the bill and gets it fixed.
2. Knock the repair cost off the agreed upon price and you fix it or get it fixed.
3. You walk away.
Re: Survey Issue Today Suggestions Needed on Hard Top Rottin
If you're thinking of going non-dealer you may want to call Redman Marine Fabricators in York, ME. Only about a 45 minute drive from Baert and they are well known and regarded when it comes to hard top and fabrication work. Just another idea.
If you're thinking of going non-dealer you may want to call Redman Marine Fabricators in York, ME. Only about a 45 minute drive from Baert and they are well known and regarded when it comes to hard top and fabrication work. Just another idea.
Fishtales
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Re: Survey Issue Today Suggestions Needed on Hard Top Rottin
I must be a hard arse.
It is pretty simple where I sit. The price is X and it is contingent upon a new factory top. Not negotiable. I wouldn't fix it or let them fix it. It can't be done. Once wet that core is like mush and it isn't fixed. It is being hidden for about 1-2 years and then it is your liability.
There are plenty of these production boats out there. If the guys selling it isn't bending over backward in this economy, well that says a lot to me and I'd walk.
I had a Sailfish before the Marlin and unless you are as small frame guy, you will get sick and tired of the tight helm area. There are better layouts out there. Don't get hung up on the Sailfish or that particular boat. I wonder what else was done incorrectly if that defect exists anyway.
I must be a hard arse.
It is pretty simple where I sit. The price is X and it is contingent upon a new factory top. Not negotiable. I wouldn't fix it or let them fix it. It can't be done. Once wet that core is like mush and it isn't fixed. It is being hidden for about 1-2 years and then it is your liability.
There are plenty of these production boats out there. If the guys selling it isn't bending over backward in this economy, well that says a lot to me and I'd walk.
I had a Sailfish before the Marlin and unless you are as small frame guy, you will get sick and tired of the tight helm area. There are better layouts out there. Don't get hung up on the Sailfish or that particular boat. I wonder what else was done incorrectly if that defect exists anyway.
Re: Survey Issue Today Suggestions Needed on Hard Top Rottin
I am remaining silent to see where it goes via GW. If they just replace the top no issue and I plan to oversee the mountings personally if not do them myself or hire my own guy. I really think that poor installation practice of the antennas and the outriggers are to blame for water intrusion. Not that balsa core isn't just a poor material to begin with and should not be used on this. But if the holes were properly sealed and bedded then we should not be having this discussion. We really check the boat out and all other items are fine. Is it the perfect boat all around. No way. For me the marlin was one size too big. Did look at them. What makes a marlin better then a sailfish contruction wise. As far as I know they are built in the same factory.
If GW does not come through then I have to goto plan B or C. B is $ off for me too replace the top aftermarket or OEM. C walk away because the next guy can have the issue. At that point I will divulge all the details of the boats so others don't get as far as me before discovering it.
I just see no way that the selling dealer who installed the outriggers this spring could not have drilled this top and not have water just pour out. Just impossible. So they knew about it or at least the guy installing them did and when I asked about any known issues in the boat, I got the standard sales answer of no. Also i am betting that they installed most of the other items on the top too.
It is a wait and see situation right now. No need to drop a nuke if they surrender without a fight. :<><
Pictures of the front of the top. Do not have any of the rear where it is cracked and very soft.
I am remaining silent to see where it goes via GW. If they just replace the top no issue and I plan to oversee the mountings personally if not do them myself or hire my own guy. I really think that poor installation practice of the antennas and the outriggers are to blame for water intrusion. Not that balsa core isn't just a poor material to begin with and should not be used on this. But if the holes were properly sealed and bedded then we should not be having this discussion. We really check the boat out and all other items are fine. Is it the perfect boat all around. No way. For me the marlin was one size too big. Did look at them. What makes a marlin better then a sailfish contruction wise. As far as I know they are built in the same factory.
If GW does not come through then I have to goto plan B or C. B is $ off for me too replace the top aftermarket or OEM. C walk away because the next guy can have the issue. At that point I will divulge all the details of the boats so others don't get as far as me before discovering it.
I just see no way that the selling dealer who installed the outriggers this spring could not have drilled this top and not have water just pour out. Just impossible. So they knew about it or at least the guy installing them did and when I asked about any known issues in the boat, I got the standard sales answer of no. Also i am betting that they installed most of the other items on the top too.
It is a wait and see situation right now. No need to drop a nuke if they surrender without a fight. :<><
Pictures of the front of the top. Do not have any of the rear where it is cracked and very soft.
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Re: Survey Issue Today Suggestions Needed on Hard Top Rottin
http://boston.craigslist.org/sob/boa/2601366776.html
Hard top with canvas in Concord, MA from a 2004. Just came across it randomly browsing craigslist.
http://boston.craigslist.org/sob/boa/2601366776.html
Hard top with canvas in Concord, MA from a 2004. Just came across it randomly browsing craigslist.
Re: Survey Issue Today Suggestions Needed on Hard Top Rottin
That is a sweet find and looks the same as the 2006 one. Does anyone know if the 04 and 06 hard tops are the same? If they do not fix it this could be an option. I may need to look at it for a backup plan. Hope it is dry.
MA208 said:
That is a sweet find and looks the same as the 2006 one. Does anyone know if the 04 and 06 hard tops are the same? If they do not fix it this could be an option. I may need to look at it for a backup plan. Hope it is dry.
Re: Survey Issue Today Suggestions Needed on Hard Top Rottin
Well Grady has their answer. The will replace the top which is like $2800 but not pay for any of the labor to do it. They are telling me the labor for it will be around $2000 to $2500 to replace it all. The new top will be a balsa core. What do you all think I should do knowing this? Can a new balsa cored top be put on and sealed correctly to give me many years of no headache? I am thinking the current owner should eat the other cost. Those of you that have sold boats am I out of line asking for that?
Well Grady has their answer. The will replace the top which is like $2800 but not pay for any of the labor to do it. They are telling me the labor for it will be around $2000 to $2500 to replace it all. The new top will be a balsa core. What do you all think I should do knowing this? Can a new balsa cored top be put on and sealed correctly to give me many years of no headache? I am thinking the current owner should eat the other cost. Those of you that have sold boats am I out of line asking for that?
Capt Bill
GreatGrady Captain
Re: Survey Issue Today Suggestions Needed on Hard Top Rottin
I think that is more than a generous offer by Grady. After all, the water intrusion is a result of improperly sealed holes that were put there after the boat was sold. GPS, radar, maybe outriggers. Dealer or owner did this, and if it had been done right, there would not be a problem. Dealer/seller should take care of this, or reduce price accordingly, unless you think this boat is priced too low to begin with. :roll:
I think that is more than a generous offer by Grady. After all, the water intrusion is a result of improperly sealed holes that were put there after the boat was sold. GPS, radar, maybe outriggers. Dealer or owner did this, and if it had been done right, there would not be a problem. Dealer/seller should take care of this, or reduce price accordingly, unless you think this boat is priced too low to begin with. :roll:
Re: Survey Issue Today Suggestions Needed on Hard Top Rottin
Maybe this will help? Final negotiated price before this issue was uncovered in the survey was $68,500 on the following.
2006 GW Sailfish 282 with twin F225 with 340 hours on them. Warranty on hull till 2013 and on engines until March 2014. Raymarine C-80 Color GPS/Plotter/Radar/Sonar, new Ray 55 VHF radio, AM/FM/CD stereo. Factory Hardtop with full enclosure (GW providing brand new one topic of this thread). Taco Grand Slam Hardtop outriggers just added (5-19-11), Dockside Power, Battery Charger, Hot Water, Microwave, hydraulic tilt steering, trim tabs w/indicators, Deluxe Helm Chairs, raw water livewell, raw water washdown, Electric Marine Head.
Capt Bill said:
Maybe this will help? Final negotiated price before this issue was uncovered in the survey was $68,500 on the following.
2006 GW Sailfish 282 with twin F225 with 340 hours on them. Warranty on hull till 2013 and on engines until March 2014. Raymarine C-80 Color GPS/Plotter/Radar/Sonar, new Ray 55 VHF radio, AM/FM/CD stereo. Factory Hardtop with full enclosure (GW providing brand new one topic of this thread). Taco Grand Slam Hardtop outriggers just added (5-19-11), Dockside Power, Battery Charger, Hot Water, Microwave, hydraulic tilt steering, trim tabs w/indicators, Deluxe Helm Chairs, raw water livewell, raw water washdown, Electric Marine Head.
Re: Survey Issue Today Suggestions Needed on Hard Top Rottin
The hardtop is end grain balsa cored probably 1/2 thick. if water enters the top side it gets trapped unless you don't caulk the bottom side nuts. Then it probably passes thru and under no pressure to move sideways= and you notice. The two skins are joined at the lip appears as one but can be cut and parted open.
Seems like a lot of work to get on and off the boat, but a DIYer repair of the top itself once off isn't much to do. The two skins have to be seperated, I'd try to peel of the inner one, even if it breaks up so what, then replace the coring and either reskin the inside or bond back the existing inner skin.
Avoid screws from the top unless cored, or use machine bolts fully thru bottom skin and don't caulk bottom nut, to allow water to drip and you notice. I had these grip type cable seals for the VHF cable and one day saw the leak from below, was at the screw not cable grip, resealed screw holes end of story.
Same problem happens to pulpits when using screws from the top side and not machine bolts all the way thru.
Of course all holes cored is the best.
Glad to see Grady HQ is stepping up for you.
The hardtop is end grain balsa cored probably 1/2 thick. if water enters the top side it gets trapped unless you don't caulk the bottom side nuts. Then it probably passes thru and under no pressure to move sideways= and you notice. The two skins are joined at the lip appears as one but can be cut and parted open.
Seems like a lot of work to get on and off the boat, but a DIYer repair of the top itself once off isn't much to do. The two skins have to be seperated, I'd try to peel of the inner one, even if it breaks up so what, then replace the coring and either reskin the inside or bond back the existing inner skin.
Avoid screws from the top unless cored, or use machine bolts fully thru bottom skin and don't caulk bottom nut, to allow water to drip and you notice. I had these grip type cable seals for the VHF cable and one day saw the leak from below, was at the screw not cable grip, resealed screw holes end of story.
Same problem happens to pulpits when using screws from the top side and not machine bolts all the way thru.
Of course all holes cored is the best.
Glad to see Grady HQ is stepping up for you.
Re: Survey Issue Today Suggestions Needed on Hard Top Rottin
The dealer thinks that Grady White no longer uses balsa in the hardtop for a core. His is checking what they are using now for me. Doesn't matter really but thought is maybe of interest to all. It will take about 6 weeks to get the new top. They have to make it.
The dealer thinks that Grady White no longer uses balsa in the hardtop for a core. His is checking what they are using now for me. Doesn't matter really but thought is maybe of interest to all. It will take about 6 weeks to get the new top. They have to make it.
Re: Survey Issue Today Suggestions Needed on Hard Top Rottin
You can seal a balsa cored t-top (or anything else) for life very easy. What you do is.....
1-Drill your holes normally where you want them to be.
2-After you drill the hole(s) get an alen key and insert the long part into an electric drill and the other part into the hole you drilled and start spinning it around until you have enlarged the core more than the hole.
3-Cover the hole(s) under it with some blue painters tape then over that a bigger piece of duct tape.
4-Mix some thickened epoxy and pour it inside all the holes you drilled.
5-Wait till is cured then remove the tape and re drill your hole(s) with the same size drill you did earlier.
:jaw WOW, Now you have a hole that is TOTALLY water proof and will last literally for life.
Have fun.
P.S, if you don't know what thickened epoxy is PM me and i will go over step by step.
You can seal a balsa cored t-top (or anything else) for life very easy. What you do is.....
1-Drill your holes normally where you want them to be.
2-After you drill the hole(s) get an alen key and insert the long part into an electric drill and the other part into the hole you drilled and start spinning it around until you have enlarged the core more than the hole.
3-Cover the hole(s) under it with some blue painters tape then over that a bigger piece of duct tape.
4-Mix some thickened epoxy and pour it inside all the holes you drilled.
5-Wait till is cured then remove the tape and re drill your hole(s) with the same size drill you did earlier.
:jaw WOW, Now you have a hole that is TOTALLY water proof and will last literally for life.
Have fun.
P.S, if you don't know what thickened epoxy is PM me and i will go over step by step.
Grady White steps up and the final outcome
They are building a new top and will ship it up here for free 6-10 weeks depending on boats shipments. No problem with me because I planned to replace it over the winter anyway.
The really good news here is that GW NO longer uses balsa in the tops for a core. Not sure what year they changed that policy. My top will be made with a closed cell foam board. I do not have the exact kind they are using but anything should be better than balsa.
They are building a new top and will ship it up here for free 6-10 weeks depending on boats shipments. No problem with me because I planned to replace it over the winter anyway.
The really good news here is that GW NO longer uses balsa in the tops for a core. Not sure what year they changed that policy. My top will be made with a closed cell foam board. I do not have the exact kind they are using but anything should be better than balsa.