Transom edge seperating under alum mold'g

[82seafarer]

I took the aluminum molding off around the transom (of my 82 Seafarer outboard)and the fiberglass has cracked and broken away where it meets at the edge ! It almost seems as if the wood inside probably swelled a bit and then caused it to break and then start to pull away from each other about 1/16 of an inch ! I am assuming that I am not the only one that this has happened to cause' it looks like a poor design. My question is what do I do about it ? I think the transom is solid (at least it appears to be) and when I jump up and down on the outboard cavitation plate it does not appear to flex much. The boat is on the trailer.
I was thinking of just cleaning up the jagged break and caulking it cuz I am guessing that by just glassing over the break it will just break again and keeping water out is the main concern - but I am no expert. The aluminum probably needs to be re-drilled in spots and maybe I will use those "saucer" looking washers to keep the screw heads from pulling thru again in spots.
Has anyone tackled this project at all ? Any help would be GREATLY appreciated. Thanks.

 

[seasick]

This is a fairly common occurrence on Gradys. It is difficult to tell if the transom is wet ( really wet) without a moisture meter and someone who knows how to use it.
You can stick an ice pick or a screwdriver into the transom core from the top to try and judge how mushy it is. Unfortunately, a wet transom may not show up until there is delamination of the glass or structural failure.
If the rot or wetness is limited to the top edge only, it can be sealed with epoxy resin. If there is some rotten wood that has to be removed and it is just the top 1/4 inch or so, Marinetex can be used.
If the rot goes deeper, you have to have it looked at.
Note that if the transom is wet, the sealing will just trap the moisture.
Contrary to what a lot of folks think, using a hair drier or heat gun won't remove the moisture from a wet core.
Let us know what you find and good luck.

 

[82seafarer]

Thanks for the info ! Well one of the 4 brass motor well drain tubes was cracked bad so I just took it out to get ready to put a new one in. I think I did the other 3 about 10 years ago. I cleaned out the hole pretty good and it is a bit damp in there but the wood all looks/feels strong if it is any indication of the rest of the transom. This boat has been out of the water for 2 years and was out for about 8 years before that so the transom has only been wet from rain water if that means anything. I am not too sure how to dry the transom though before I re-seal it ? The tube hole is starting to dry but I am wondering how to dry the rest of the transom.

 

[seasick]

The fact that the boat was out of the water is good. I doubt there is a lot of water in there. If you can attach a wet dry vacuum to the drain hole and seal up the back side, you will create some vacuum in the transom. That helps pull out moisture. Runit for a while and see if you see wetness.
If the hole isn't dripping now, you are probably OK. Fix the drain tube and seal the upper edge. Marinetex is fine since the aluminum strip should cover the patch. Just try to get any loose stuff out of the top edge to give a good surface for the putty to adhere to.
Then go enjoy.

 

[richie rich]

Contrary to what a lot of folks think, using a hair drier or heat gun won't remove the moisture from a wet core.

For the entire transom, I agree, for a spot repair, I have done it and it works...but you're talking about holes in the area of a half an inch that needs to be epoxied and plugged.

If the core is wet, but stll looks like regular plywood, it will be OK to use for a while....but long term, moisture and air will rot it out...the moisture will also freeze in the winter and continually expand and pop the fiberglass skin....long-term prognosis is that you will need a core replacement if its wet....how long??? Just continue to monitor the core and see where it goes...if you start seeing bulges in the skin, its time to replace the core.

 

[BobP]

Did you get an ice pick and shove it straight down as hard as you can by hand?

All along the transom say at 6 inch intervals?

If so, what happened ?

 

[82seafarer]

How can a wet core be dried ? One thing I noticed is that inside the bilge there are what appear to be drain holes strategically placed about 8 inches above the hull bottom on the transom that allow the transom to "DRAIN" if it gets water logged. It looks almost as if they were done at the factory since the white bilge paint was done after. You can even see stains where water must have been dripping out of them at one point or another.
Only drawback would be if there is a lot of water in the bilge they could also let water in.
As far as the ice-pick trick, that makes me nervous doing that. Where would I poke the transom ?
I see what you mean about it freezing and popping out. Now I see how it did that. I was wondering how it seperated like that. Right now I am grinding out some fiberglass (enough to make it a strong glassing) where it seperated and I am reglassing it with the thicker resin that does not sag or run.
Maybe if nothing else it will keep water from coming in anymore and allow the transom to dry a bit.

 

[richie rich]

You can't dry out the entire core....to even attempt it would mean the removal of an entire skin on one side...if you go that far, replace the whole core. But if you needed to re-install trim tabs or sounder or drain plug, you can drill out the screw holes oversize, like 5/8 inch...dry out the holes, epoxy and dowel the holes and re-drill and mount the hardware. I used a Stiener heat gun that has a nipple attachment....use a compression fitting to attach it and copper tube about 15 inches long...plugged the end of the tube with a set screw and drilled some holes on the side of the tip for air to come out .....stuck it into the 5/8 hole and let the heat/air do its thing....for damp holes it took about an hour per hole...for really wet ones along the transom edge and chine, 2 hours...temp setting on 4, medium speed....once I removed the tube, the wood core surrounding the hole was hot and bone dry.....wet it out with West System G-flex epoxy that bonds well to wet wood....it literally sucks it into the grain.....then thickend more up with cabosil, injected it in and placed a 1/2 inch dowel.....once dry I cut off the dowel flush, counter sinked it, and covered the end grain with epoxy and faired....then I just re-attached all my hardware...tabs, tab cylinders, sounders, drain plug and misc cable holders......it bought me several years worth of time before I started on a complete retrofit.

As far as drain holes in the transom??? I doubt its factory...can you post a picture?

 

[82seafarer]

I have to dry out the drain tube hole that I am replacing the brass tube in. The old broken one has been out 2 weeks now and still remains a little damp - but not like it was when I removed it. I am hoping that with a heat gun I can get it to dry enough to LIFE-SEAL it and install the new tube. Then I have to do the bilge drain tube below. That is no-good too now. That is going to be tougher to get dry I think. I dried the bilge last night with a sponge and hope the heat-gun will do the trick there too. It has been a while with little rain and no way to get into the transom since I covered the area the moisture was probably coming it (under the aluminum). I have it duct-taped and covered with a tarp. I wonder if putting the boat under a roof and keeping water out of the boat over the winter will allow the transom to dry the rest of the way. Especially if I yank the drain tubes again. Thanks..

 

[richie rich]

Ed, I don't think the entire core will ever dry out on its own without removing the skin......maybe the first 1/2 to 1 inch around the brass tubes, the drain or under the aluminum strip, which will be good enough to bond to, but the rest will remain damp inside......longterm, whatever that may mean, ie 2 years, 4 years etc, a new core will be required.....if its just wet, the core will be heavy, but still have some strength.....but once it begins to rot, or the freeze thaw pops the skin in places, the strength will be diminished.

When drying out the tubes, since the tube hole is a thru-hull, I think maybe putting a backing plate of some sort on one side to allow the heat from the heat gun to hit it and reverse direction across the open core to help dry it out....you don't want it too hot, but similar to the hottest setting of a hair dryer.....after an hour or two, it should be dry....epoxy the hole first to seal the wood core, then use the Lifeseal and brasstube.......I should have my heat gun tube set up in the basement somewhere from when I did it...I'll try and post a pic to show how it worked.

I think keeping it out of the rain will help you fix the drain in the bilge...otherwise, the small trickle of water will never stop.

 

[seasick]

The heat gun trick doesn't really work except for the very near surfaces and you could burn the glass or worse.
What you need is dry air flowing through the holes.

So if you have the luxury of dry winter storage, the drying can be augmented by forcing air flow through the holes. That can be done with a small fan that creates a little positive pressure or a vacuum that creates some negative pressure. If the air is not as dry as needed, a light bulb in the bilge with warm the air ( and dry it). Use a regular bulb and a small fan to create air flow.
If your ambient air is dry, tape a box fan over an access port or cover to the bilge. Try to seal it up and have the fan blow out. That will suck air into the holes from the outside. As long as the air is drier than the core, vapor will be sucked out. This will also dry the bilge.
As mentioned, if the transom is soaked, the only way to dry it is to open ot and re-core.

 

[richie rich]

This is the set up I used to successfully dry out over 25 holes in a wet transom. You can see how I plugged the tip to diffuse the air sideways in the hole. The gun also allows total control of heat and velocity to allow you to dry the wood core slowly and effectively without any damage to the surrounding laminate. Low heat with moderate air flow and about an hour or two the hole should be ready for sealing.

 

[BobP]

Interesting tool !
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He has to find out if the transom is rotted or not, the ice pick tip applied vertically down where the alum trim is, works. Can also drill some 1/8 holes on inner skin to check the wood condition. Wood drillings should be warm and dry, not cool (it is wet if cool) nor dark.

It can be rotted normal color or blackened, eventually.

If not rotted, then it can be saved. If rotted, no good - can snap across a knee. Pick up a piece of driftwood on beach to see what I mean.

Presuming the water has spread thruout as I suspect -
Hopefully has not frozen and seperated from skins -

Get a 5 inch hole saw with a short bit and make swiss cheese on the inner skin, especially along the lower 6 inches. just depth of skin to remov eit, say at 16 inch intervals port to starboard. Then string several heat lamps along the transom on the outside to the lower half. Presume top alum cap is off / motor off.
Keep the heat as hot (closeness of heat lamps)so you can barely touch the glass on outside w/o yelling the F word. Get any fuel lines or filters the heck out of there. Do this only attended.
When it is dry the temp will rise higher, very high, will not rise that high if still wet, that's the clue when it is done.
Once it is hot, the water will leach out of the holes on inside, even running down. You will not believe how much and will seem never to end. Water will be sucked from all over and depart out the inner holes and vaporize out the top.
You may have to do this several full days depending on how many holes and heat lamps, so start early in day.

When wood on inside is dry and very hot, it is dry.

Bevel the edge of the saw holes back say 2 inches with 4.5 inch angle grinder 36 grit paper and lay up 3 layers of 1708 with epoxy resin, over coat with one layer of resin alone. Paint is optional.

Presto, saved $4K. Providing wood is not rotted.

Soak top edge heavy with light viscocity epoxy resin, preheat wood with heat gun/lamp, let it suck up as much as it will take, slow hardener, then add top coat of silica thickned resin, redrill and caulk alum trip. If you can overlap some ligter cloth say 3 layers of 6 oz over the top onto sides, all the better.

 

[82seafarer]

Wow - That's some great info ! If the transom turns out to be pretty wet I am surely going to try doing probably just that !
So far I have ground about 1/2 inch from the transom skins where they meet at the top edge (under the aluminum) and were cracked all the way from gunnel to gunnel. Then I reglassed it with the thicker poly-epoxy. The only part I did not do yet is about 18 inches where the motor hangs and is hard to get to. I have been duct-taping over it all to keep moisture out in-case it rains. Also taped over the bilge hole I did not fix yet too. I think before I do anymore I will try and check as best I can to see if the transom is real wet - and if so then I will stop where I am at and try what you suggested (although I need a little more clarification on a few things first). So I should try using a ice-pick inside the bilge on the transom ? Do I have to re-seal where I poked with resin ? How deep and where do I poke ?
What about where the holes are now in the transom that appear to be there to help it drain already ?
Thanks so much !

 

[BobP]

You are concerned with wetness, when your concern should be has the wood already been ruined by water, if so, wet or dry doesn't matter. It doens't come back to life, will turn to black and crumble like soil eventually.

Whatever these holes are - were not intented to drain or dry anything wood related.

Are you asking can you stick the plywood core with an ice pick?
Why not?
Is it because you don't want to find out what happens when you do?
What do you think should happen if the plywood is stuck with the ice pick - like any plywood you find in Home Depot? Even the chepest junk sheeting grade.

 

[BobP]

By the way, don't take this personally.

You should turn over boat to Grady dealer or boat restorer for an evaluation and recommendation, may even advise you for free as well as a cost estimate and layup time if repairs are involved.

In 10 minutes they will be done with the evaluation. If that long.

Good luck!

 

[richie rich]

you should really post a pic of whats going on.....I don't think anyone can understand what those holes are about....

 

[82seafarer]

Well just judging from the hole for the transom drain I have apart the wood inside looks like new and is solid as a rock and NOT dark at all. And I am guessing it was also the one letting much of the water in since the bronze tube was broken for some time. The transom bilge drain is also cracked so I will pull that one next. If they both look good and the transom does not fail the ice-pick test then I will be satisfied. I MAY even replace the other 3 tubes and check in there too. If not then I will surely forget putting the boat in the water this year and instead start the project to replace or dry-out the transom if it is not rotten but just wet. ..... :hmm

 

[82seafarer]

Well I stuck the transom with an ice-pick inside the bilge in several spots and it appears to be pretty solid and NOT soft at all. I got the bilge drain hole to dry so I assume the rest of the transom is dry as well. I also stuck the hole with the ice-pick and it also is not soft. Well not softer then it should be I guess.
I guess without opening up the transom there is no way to know any further for sure how good the wood is. For now I will keep an eye on it and surely look for signs of failure. I will also not be just immediately heading 30 miles off-shore in rough weather. I am just going to take it easy in the bay for quite a while just in case there is a problem with the transom that I missed.

 

[richie rich]

Sounds like good news. Seal it up well and you should have plenty of boating left in her before you need to do any major work. Posieden is on your side