Wiring on a 1997 228G

[jehines3]

Jimmy, what do you think about the Blue Seas fuse box deal. I don't boat in the salt water nor do I ever think that I will. My other question is I know I will pull my positive from my battery selector switch but where do I catch a common ground. Do I run a ground wire from each of my batteries of pick it up some where else. How do I do a search of your post? I am also looking at running wires for a windlass and for motors on a planner board mast. Might as well do it right from the start.

Blue Seas are marine products using tinned plated bus, etc, perfect for salt or FW environment. That battery post deal looks just like the auto version sold at Wally World. It does not say tinned or even marine in the description, stay away.

As for your negative connections. Your batteries should have a big old wire that connects both negative posts together...

In my case I have a big #2 Tinned black cable between each battery negative post. Off my house battery I have a 200A tinned negative bus bar from Blue Seas. I connect each of my blue seas 24 hour panels negatives to the bus bar with a tinned #8awg ring lugged of course. Each of the blue seas fuse panels has a negative bus. I like BOTH leads of a 12V device to land in the same place.

Maybe Jimmy was harsh on the guy, but man that was about some of the worst advice I have seen in awhile. I've never figured out why people can't say "I don't know", instead of making a very poor and dangerous recomendation.

 

[BobP]

There's no end to how elaborate or extensive one can make their aux power supply systems. Whatever you can make yours, I can make it twice as elaborate, and so on. Its easy, no challenge there. And there are plenty of guys selling and installing such systems.

The original post was a member who had several smaller wires gathered at the battery (transom) area of the boat. Sure he can reroute and extend the wires all up the way to the dash area and install a bus system, one for non-switched loads, one for switched loads.

Nonetheless, not everyone needs to build such an elaborate bus system to connect some smaller loads while staying back at the transom.

For about $25 in parts, I can readily solder (I prefer solder) up several waterproof fused pigtails off one (properly) rated lug, for connection anywhere of choice, for such a use at the transom as a bus system (an enitrely waterproof submersible fused bus system, good luck finding one at Blue Seas). All you have to do is waterpoof crimp or solder/heat shrink the existing load wires to the free ends of the fused pigtails and select the proper fuse for each.

I prefer the yellow barrel shaped holders for waterproof service that West sells.

Interestingly enough, if you look behind the older Grady (Marlin too) DC fused switch panels, you will find an interesting design, a bus system made up of nothing but dozens of wire jumpers, jumped from one to another. Jumped off switches, breakers, indicators, you name it.
This breadboard type construction is about economics, as my advise is aimed to those interested in such things as ecomonics, as I am, and are competent enough DIYers.

So continue on with the entertainment while I'm laughing, as well laughing all the way to the bank.

Members are free to spend at least $750 or more to get such an elaborate dual bus system installed to cover some smaller gauge load wires back at the transom, as the other member suggested. I guess this is what capitalism is all about.

New member Double E - having fun yet?
Hang in there - it gets better.

 

[jehines3]

My three 24 hour panels and the 200A bus cost no more than $100.00 and all are installed on the transom bulkhead in the battery compartment. There is no question which positive and negative wire are for any circuit that is fed 24hr. I have never had to troubleshoot any wiring I have installed, but if I had, it is clear and concise.

My system is far more complex (two motor/three battery bank) than what the original poster was after (single motor/two battery bank) and it can be dulled down to two blue seas panel for 24 hour loads in the transom battery compartment. As for the older Grady stuff I know exactly what you mean, I'd love to change most of it out. I tore out the battery switches and combiner when I did this job to use ACR's which were not around when the boat was built. I only want to make my boat better than when it left the factory.

Just realize that you gave advice, most of which is not supported by the NMMA/ABYC standards. Jimmy and I called you out on it.

I don't install or maintain boat power systems for anyone, therefore I have nothing to gain, but helping a fellow boater on a topic that at times is ellusive.

Caution when using solider, cheaper ones react poorly with saltwater and can fail quickly. A tinned marine inline splice with shrink is the best mechanicaly and electrically if properly crimped and heated. jh

 

[BobP]

I don't know what you mean by calling me out, whatever ranting going on is meant to appeal to other members, it serves no purpose to me. Was it supposed to? What contest did I enter ?

The problem with the internet - people don't act civil toward eachother not being face to face, no better example has been displayed.

Now, let's get back to the subject - wasted enough time.

The original post was about small gauge wires, not about anything associated with a windlass, hardly a small gauge wiring load. Small gauge wring is 16 AWG and smaller, to me. Can't think how any winch can run on such small wire, can you?

I wouldn'd install panels in the bilge back there, too much dampness, mildew, water splashing around. etc. I have my load panels at the bridge and hardtop, then run to the stern. The breakers at the stern are waterproof, I have four of them, one for the windlass, one for the inverter, etc, and several waterproof submersible fuses - namely for the two blige pumps I can think of now. At the end of the season, I powerwash the bilge to clear the mildew out.

Why did I describe my system? There is more than one way to skin a cat.
Not to say it is better than what you do. The member is free to pass it up.

Soldering is ok as long as 1: don't breath the fumes, and 2, heat shrink over it. Both mechanical crimps and soldering, if done improperly are a problem. A professional installed the windlass on my boat prior to my ownership, he used visegrips to crimp, house wiring for the positive feed, marine wiring for the negatve feed, and two turns of electrical tape at each crimp. The first time I pulled on a wire it came out of the crimp.

Goes to show!

If you inspect the wiring terminals on your engines, you will see OMC used solder connections too.

 

[BobP]

By the way, I paid $40. per waterproof surface mount breaker alone, you got an excellent deal at that price for all what you mentioned.

 

[jimmy's marine service]

connections should be crimped rather than soldered....vibration can and will cause solder to break... :roll: :roll:
the saga continues... :wink:

 

[Double Eagle]

Sorry for all of the conflict. I started out talking about a few wires in the back of the boat that I wanted to do a little cleaning up with. Then in another post I did say that I wanted to also run wires for a windlass and planner boards. Two different jobs to be done here. So what are we saying about putting the wires into a fuse panel, good think or not. I am a firm believer in soldered connections, properly crimp terminals with the proper crimper's( not the ones that strip wire and have the crimper's on them they are junk),Heat shrink ( the kind with glue inside) and electrical grease. I know how to make good connections just looking for some advice on a good lay out, buss bars, fuses of what. What is proper to run up to the front for a windlass. I should be able to tap into the same wires for my planner board motors. You might say that I am some dumb but I sure as hell not plumb dumb !!!!! Didn't mean to rile all you guys up but it sure is entertaining as hell !!!! Thanks

 

[jimmy's marine service]

Sorry for all of the conflict. I started out talking about a few wires in the back of the boat that I wanted to do a little cleaning up with. Then in another post I did say that I wanted to also run wires for a windlass and planner boards. Two different jobs to be done here. So what are we saying about putting the wires into a fuse panel, good think or not. I am a firm believer in soldered connections, properly crimp terminals with the proper crimper's( not the ones that strip wire and have the crimper's on them they are junk),Heat shrink ( the kind with glue inside) and electrical grease. I know how to make good connections just looking for some advice on a good lay out, buss bars, fuses of what. What is proper to run up to the front for a windlass. I should be able to tap into the same wires for my planner board motors. You might say that I am some dumb but I sure as hell not plumb dumb !!!!! Didn't mean to rile all you guys up but it sure is entertaining as hell !!!! Thanks

if you really want some good advice,i suggest you ask bobp...i gotta read what this guy would reccomend...let me guess...romax,purchased from home depot...you're right...this is entertaining...reading this old guy's rantings is absolutley hilarious,he actually thinks he knows something....this guy is way too much... :wink: c'mon there bob,a guy like you who knows everything...i gotta read your reply...don't let me down big guy....and so you know,i'll explain to you the correct way,the way that would comply with abyc codes...
and hey bob,as far as not being able to say something to someone's face...you got the wrong guy here pal,trust me,a few memebers of this board can tell you i back down from noone at no time,EVER !!!!!i enjoy the face to face more than anything !!!!

 

[Double Eagle]

Gee Wiz Jimmy, are you going to let me down and not tell what you would do. I just came from the barn and checked out the wires that I was concerned with. Two go to Big Jon down riggers, one goes to a Lowrance fish finder that is mounted on the track with my down riggers and the other I think goes to my kicker I think. What about running wires all the way up front for a windlass.

 

[Grog]

Re: interesting...

Your common isn't common? How do you charge both batteries?


BobP I don't want to jump on the bash wagon but that is just asking for trouble.

not quite sure what and who you're asking....

if you're asking me...i charge both batteries via sense relays...i use seperate switches for the engines and the 12v systems...use the search function...i explain alot of stuff in great detail...

The grounding question was for Double Eagle.

 

[Double Eagle]

Jimmy's marine, you tell me about all of your past post and to check them out. How do I get there???? Remember I have one engine and two batteries and everything in 12 volts. There is no axillary charger and my system does not need to supply any voltage overnight. All I want to do is properly connect some down riggers, a fish finder, and one other wire going to I think my kicker. Then I want to run some wiring to the helm to be able to run a windless and my planner board motors. Do the wires running to the helm need fused back at the battery switch and then circuit breakers to the windless or what is proper. Do I need a buss bar at the transom to run to a fuse block and then to the helm of what. Sounds Jimmy that you may have talked about this be for I came along. Just point me the direction and tell me how to get to your past post. Is there a secret code to get there or what. Time is running out as I am going to buy parts tomorrow so I can get started. I tired of looking at a rat nest of wires and what ever else is back there. It's clean up time!!!!! THANKS

 

[jimmy's marine service]

Jimmy's marine, you tell me about all of your past post and to check them out. How do I get there???? Remember I have one engine and two batteries and everything in 12 volts. There is no axillary charger and my system does not need to supply any voltage overnight. All I want to do is properly connect some down riggers, a fish finder, and one other wire going to I think my kicker. Then I want to run some wiring to the helm to be able to run a windless and my planner board motors. Do the wires running to the helm need fused back at the battery switch and then circuit breakers to the windless or what is proper. Do I need a buss bar at the transom to run to a fuse block and then to the helm of what. Sounds Jimmy that you may have talked about this be for I came along. Just point me the direction and tell me how to get to your past post. Is there a secret code to get there or what. Time is running out as I am going to buy parts tomorrow so I can get started. I tired of looking at a rat nest of wires and what ever else is back there. It's clean up time!!!!! THANKS

click on my profile,when the page comes up,you will see "read more posts by jimmy's marine service",click on that link....
later on today,i will explain the whole process,i'll put up some pics too...i gotta run to the shop for a few hours today....

 

[jehines3]

Bob, if your suggesting I've been uncivil, plese let me know. I'm not here to talk trash. Jimmy, gets fired up, but he knows his stuff. If you look past the abbrasiveness and coarse language there is allot of good information. I enjoy Jimmy's colorful approach and actually enjoy seeing someone with a passion for proper boat repair contribute. It gets people thinking.

As far at "calling you on it". You made a wiring suggestion that goes against the NMMA/ABYC standards for connections and terminals. You did not like it, and that is fine, it's your boat. But when you suggest to someone else to improperly do a job and won't admit you gave unfounded advice, that's calling you on it. Your knowledge of boat electrical systems may be limited, it is not up to me to judge.

My 1990 Marlin is NMMA certified from the factory, why would I take a perfectly good certification program (which is coveted by most builders) and knowingly advise someone install something specifically against that specification. If the standards weren't so expensive, they would be readily availible for more people to ream them, and understand why the industry has such a thing. jh

 

[jehines3]

Double Eagle, I need more information on your plans.

Are both your batteries the same or do you designate one as a house bank with a deep cell. When I had a two bank set-up I used to run combinaiton batteries which made my 24 hour stuff somewhat balanced between the two batteries.

What are the circuiting specs came with your down rigger?

Do your bilge pumps go to seperate batteries?

Is your kicker electric start? You really need to know what any "mystery wires are for.

Your windlass will be a straight shot from the battery to the bow with a pretty stout cable. The switching is done via aux switch and relay (much smaller conductors to the helm. form the bow). What are you windlass circuiting specs.

If you could post a pic of your transom/battery area we're talking about, I know I can come up with a good and economical design that is safe.

As far as buying parts. www.defender.com is usually the cheapest. jh

 

[Double Eagle]

Both of my batteries are the same, I have always just run on both batteries. I have no Idea as to what you are talking about as a 24 hour deal. I am not sure what the specs are on the riggers but they do have circuit breakers on the motors. I don't have a clue where the bilge is wired. Yes my kicker is electric start. I was looking at some wires today after work and have found some more wires that look like about a #2 or wires. Looks like one goes to the kicker and didn't trace the other ones yet. As I see it right now I need to sort out my rats nest and try to label all wires as to what they are. I also think that I will need some way to hook together these #2 or wires on I would think a buss bar or a lug. I did read that a lug should only have 3 wires on it. so now I have some #2 or 4 wires and some say 16 GA. wires to put on a buss or a fuse deal. Part of this problem came when the dealer installed my kicker and looks like they did a poor job on the wires. Any way I am getting tired of looking at it and tired of dealing with the wires when I pull batteries for winter service. Wires and cables and what ever needs to be routed cleaner and properly for good connections. Not a lot of room on the one side I may need to put some wiring behind the live well tank. There is only about six screws holding in and when removed there is the bilge and a nice ledge for mounting some busses. I can post some pics later when I start sorting things. Going to West Marine to pick a few things up in the morning, not real sure what as of yet!!! Busses, fuse box don't know yet, I might get mad and make my own buss bar. Also I don't have a windlass as of yet, any sugestions!!

 

[hoppyray]

I have found a few places online for some good deals on quality marine electrical products. Check out the links below...

I have received some helpful advice from this forum. Read up,ask questions, talk to the pros and then decide how you want to do it.
Just don't do it the "wrong" way. :roll:

Good luck with your project!

-------------------------------------------------------------------------<* ((((><

Great prices on marine grade tinned Type III battery cable & wire.
(same ratings as Ancor)
ABYC does not recommend solder because the wire becomes stiff and is prone to failure due to vibration.
Ancor recommends a crimp connection with adhesive lined connectors and adhesive lined shrink tubing when applicable.

http://stores.ebay.com/Gregs-Marine-Wire-Supply


and...

Great prices on tinned adhesive lined connectors (shrink tube terminals) and waterproof fuse holders(great selection)
Great prices compared to Ancor

http://www.delcity.net

 

[jehines3]

"Solder shall not be the sole means of mechanical connection in any circuit.”11.16.3.7.

"Solderless crimp on connectors shall be attached with the type of crimping tools designed for the connector used, and that will produce a connection meeting the requirements of E-11.16.3.3.” 11.16.3.8.

 

[Double Eagle]

Electrical Grease

I am very surprised that no one has mentioned anything about any kind of electrical grease. Personally I am a big fan of De-ox brand grease. I have proved it at work against corrosion and rusting. Does anyone have any comments on this or is there any in the marine bible.

 

[jehines3]

I happen to be in the power business and this is what I use based on experience and performance in outdoor installations.

http://www.sanchem.com/aSpecialE.html

 

[jehines3]

Here is the battery compartment project. Mostly complete, but each panel still gets a charger input and a cathode system input. The wiring still needs looming and the battery terminals need boots. Charger is out for replacement, not sure whether to go triple 20A or triple 30A, space may be the factor. These panels are for all items that would have otherwise been connected directly to a bettery terminal. The panels are instead hooked to their respective battery switch input. The base BEP marine battery cluster is also included. The far left is my 200A ground bus for all the panels. The surface mounted Circuit breaker is the factory Grady one, this circuit is sent forward and switched off via the house battery switch. I want to change that breaker and add another for the Windlass.

Comments always welcome and graciously accepted.