Well it was my buddy who is a dealer and a Master Yamaha Technician. He called tech support and they acknowledge some issues with the exhaust manifold coatings on some F225s in the 2002-2004 year manufactured stamped motors. However not all were affected. Seems like they got a bad batch of these or the coatings were applied poorly to some in those model years. Never heard of an F200 with the problem but if it is in that model year I would keep an eye on it. The F225 and F200 are virtually the same motor just a different computer. still way too many variables and unknowns to make a blanket judgement regarding these model year 4 strokes.
Yamaha F225 Problems?
- Thread starter Capt. Ed
- Start date
Thats the same year HOLLEY carbs where made with tin instead of zinc inside from china
It was cheap-ass metal that USA sold the Chinese, that made it weaker by mixing it!
YAMAHA will back it up, you need a good tech for YAMI
ALSO
Some lower units need a stainless vs al props, and visa versa
Honda is one and so is SUZI!!!!
It was cheap-ass metal that USA sold the Chinese, that made it weaker by mixing it!
YAMAHA will back it up, you need a good tech for YAMI
ALSO
Some lower units need a stainless vs al props, and visa versa
Honda is one and so is SUZI!!!!
If Yamaha sells stainless props to fit my Yamaha motors, you can bet your bottom dollar buying it better work right. And the solution is not going to be an aluminum prop, which Yamaha doesn't even make for the CCR motor, or maybe now they do because of it?
And I do have Yamaha CCR stainless props, at a very huge premium over aluminum. No rattling out of my gearboxes, nor any gearbox on an OMC V6 I've ever owned all the way back to the mid 80's.
So, is this how Yamaha defines progress? Or is this the (collateral damage) side effect, price adder, the 4 stroke guys paid for progress ? But not the 2 stroke guys?
Ridiculous. Yamaha should have used their tried and proven 2 stroke gearbox, 2 stroke exhaust manifolds, and whatever else needed to get 10 yrs or 1000 hrs min on these very very expensive motors.
Yamaha screwed up, no excusing them out of it.
Nothing wrong with extending the warranty to 10 yrs for exhaust manifold caused failures, free of charge, is there ? Not from the customer/motor owner seat I'm sitting in.
Same goes for the nonsense balance shaft design failures on the F150s. Yamaha screwup, screwup, screwup.
And I do have Yamaha CCR stainless props, at a very huge premium over aluminum. No rattling out of my gearboxes, nor any gearbox on an OMC V6 I've ever owned all the way back to the mid 80's.
So, is this how Yamaha defines progress? Or is this the (collateral damage) side effect, price adder, the 4 stroke guys paid for progress ? But not the 2 stroke guys?
Ridiculous. Yamaha should have used their tried and proven 2 stroke gearbox, 2 stroke exhaust manifolds, and whatever else needed to get 10 yrs or 1000 hrs min on these very very expensive motors.
Yamaha screwed up, no excusing them out of it.
Nothing wrong with extending the warranty to 10 yrs for exhaust manifold caused failures, free of charge, is there ? Not from the customer/motor owner seat I'm sitting in.
Same goes for the nonsense balance shaft design failures on the F150s. Yamaha screwup, screwup, screwup.
ya well their 350 gearbox wants synthetic oil, all others non- syth oil
out of all the engines NOW i have worked on, YAMI is the best
I do not touch BRP motors, those are just a waste of my time
out of all the engines NOW i have worked on, YAMI is the best
I do not touch BRP motors, those are just a waste of my time
It is mostly 2004 and older engines, Mostly the F225, a few F250's have been affected, and a few 2005's have been affected, no F200's to my knowledge, and nothing newer thatn 2005 to my knowledge. What stinks is that if they are out of warranty, some customers are not getting any help from yamaha....meaning they are charging full price for the replacement parts....I believe this is something defective in the casting, and they should at least cut the margins on the parts for customer loyalty reasons alone.
There does seem to be one common trait, the heavy users don't seem to be affected nearly as much as the weekend warriors.....those that average 120ish hours or less per year are a majority of the failures.
RButterworth
30 Grady Marlin
There does seem to be one common trait, the heavy users don't seem to be affected nearly as much as the weekend warriors.....those that average 120ish hours or less per year are a majority of the failures.
RButterworth
30 Grady Marlin
SwiftCloud
GreatGrady Captain
All Appears Well
My 2003 F225 was just inspected and came back clean -- as far as the technician could see with the scope. He indicated that to be sure, the power-head would have to be removed (not doing that).
The technician said that his Yamaha Rep indicated that the problem was known, but not widespread enough for a recall and that flushing could help...
My 2003 F225 was just inspected and came back clean -- as far as the technician could see with the scope. He indicated that to be sure, the power-head would have to be removed (not doing that).
The technician said that his Yamaha Rep indicated that the problem was known, but not widespread enough for a recall and that flushing could help...
Well.... I read a lot about this since I was buying a 2005 282 with 225's manufactured 9/2004. Got to the point where I figured that it was probably not as widespread as it sounded.....
And then.... My buddy has a 2002 282 with 225's. 1200 hours and have always run great. Starboard motor started burning oil this summer during tuna trips. At the end of the summer it was running about 300 rpms less than the port motor. We pulled the lower unit and looked up the exhaust and could see no visible signs of corrosion.
Compression blow down test indicated no compression at all in the middle cylinder. Tear off of heads showed that the top edge of the left middle piston was completely crumbled off. No idea how the engine could still even run, much less not throw a rod. Time for either a rebuild or new powerhead. My buddy decided to go with a new Yamaha powerhead.
Upon pulling the powerhead off the motor, it was astonishing to see rampant corrosion in the dry exhaust portion down to about 6" below the powerhead. Gasket material was exposed to such a degree that about 1/2" of material below the oil pan was totally gone. The exhaust tube directly below the powerhead was so thin that a slight prodding by finger poked through the jacket. Corrosion was massive and imminent failure was bound to take place. It does not appear that the blown cylinder had anything to do with the corrosion issue as there was nothing that was breached at the time. It is impossible to determine how long until the corrosion did breach and create issues, but the lack of material left would make you think that it wouldn't have been long.
My bud just ordered new exhaust replacement parts for the blown motor as well as the one that is not showing any issues. As soon as they get the blown motor back together they will pull the other power head off to inspect, and they assume they will find the same thing.
Boat was moored 2 summers and flushed after every use. Next 5 years boat was exclusively trailered. Regular maintenance, including changing of internal anodes.
All work was done by my buddy and a relative that is a diesel mechanic and has access to tools, engine hoists, etc. Relatively painless breakdown and pull off of powerhead. No labor cost, but the cost so far is:
New Yamaha Powerhead, including cam and valves- $6300
Internal exhaust components- $1500
We probably have around 20 Yamaha 225's in our immediate group of fishing guys. We are looking to see if we can get a lighted scope to run up the middle of the exhaust tubes to get clear looks. The flashlight up the middle section with the lower unit off did not reveal anything.
As far as Yamaha saying that the engines should be flushed... that is total BS as it is 100% in the dry exhaust portion. My bud called Yamaha and they tried to tell him the same thing. Problem of course is that he has always flushed the engines, and it is not in the wet portion.
Only a guess, but working with boilers I have seen significant corrosion issues in both cast iron and copper fin tube boilers. The cause of this is due to condensate moisture mixing with the flue gas that creates a corrosive liquid. It is enough to destroy cast iron within a short time, as well as rot out copper fin tubes. Since this issue started to show up once 4 strokes were introduced, I suspect that the design of the Yamaha motors perhaps created an unknown area where heated exhaust gases mixing with moisture in the dry side creates a corrosive condensate. Review gas condensate here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Condensing_boiler Go down to exhaust. The product is different, but the concept is exactly the same- highly corrosive exhaust gases.
I love Yamaha engines, but in this instance they are full of crap.
And then.... My buddy has a 2002 282 with 225's. 1200 hours and have always run great. Starboard motor started burning oil this summer during tuna trips. At the end of the summer it was running about 300 rpms less than the port motor. We pulled the lower unit and looked up the exhaust and could see no visible signs of corrosion.
Compression blow down test indicated no compression at all in the middle cylinder. Tear off of heads showed that the top edge of the left middle piston was completely crumbled off. No idea how the engine could still even run, much less not throw a rod. Time for either a rebuild or new powerhead. My buddy decided to go with a new Yamaha powerhead.
Upon pulling the powerhead off the motor, it was astonishing to see rampant corrosion in the dry exhaust portion down to about 6" below the powerhead. Gasket material was exposed to such a degree that about 1/2" of material below the oil pan was totally gone. The exhaust tube directly below the powerhead was so thin that a slight prodding by finger poked through the jacket. Corrosion was massive and imminent failure was bound to take place. It does not appear that the blown cylinder had anything to do with the corrosion issue as there was nothing that was breached at the time. It is impossible to determine how long until the corrosion did breach and create issues, but the lack of material left would make you think that it wouldn't have been long.
My bud just ordered new exhaust replacement parts for the blown motor as well as the one that is not showing any issues. As soon as they get the blown motor back together they will pull the other power head off to inspect, and they assume they will find the same thing.
Boat was moored 2 summers and flushed after every use. Next 5 years boat was exclusively trailered. Regular maintenance, including changing of internal anodes.
All work was done by my buddy and a relative that is a diesel mechanic and has access to tools, engine hoists, etc. Relatively painless breakdown and pull off of powerhead. No labor cost, but the cost so far is:
New Yamaha Powerhead, including cam and valves- $6300
Internal exhaust components- $1500
We probably have around 20 Yamaha 225's in our immediate group of fishing guys. We are looking to see if we can get a lighted scope to run up the middle of the exhaust tubes to get clear looks. The flashlight up the middle section with the lower unit off did not reveal anything.
As far as Yamaha saying that the engines should be flushed... that is total BS as it is 100% in the dry exhaust portion. My bud called Yamaha and they tried to tell him the same thing. Problem of course is that he has always flushed the engines, and it is not in the wet portion.
Only a guess, but working with boilers I have seen significant corrosion issues in both cast iron and copper fin tube boilers. The cause of this is due to condensate moisture mixing with the flue gas that creates a corrosive liquid. It is enough to destroy cast iron within a short time, as well as rot out copper fin tubes. Since this issue started to show up once 4 strokes were introduced, I suspect that the design of the Yamaha motors perhaps created an unknown area where heated exhaust gases mixing with moisture in the dry side creates a corrosive condensate. Review gas condensate here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Condensing_boiler Go down to exhaust. The product is different, but the concept is exactly the same- highly corrosive exhaust gases.
I love Yamaha engines, but in this instance they are full of crap.
Now What
Ok; so what can be done to get ahead of the issue. If I have my 225's inspected and they come back clean, just wait until the day comes. Or, can I take action now that could save me bigger bucks in the future. The figures posted thus far look like $6-$7k ish after a problem is discovered. Is this because of collateral damage? Is the repair cost going to be the same now or if I wait until something is discovered? Assuming I blow something 80 miles offshore ... thats another cost issue. I am just wondering if I should be taking some preventive action, even if it is close to post damage costs it could save a really bad day offshore.
Ok; so what can be done to get ahead of the issue. If I have my 225's inspected and they come back clean, just wait until the day comes. Or, can I take action now that could save me bigger bucks in the future. The figures posted thus far look like $6-$7k ish after a problem is discovered. Is this because of collateral damage? Is the repair cost going to be the same now or if I wait until something is discovered? Assuming I blow something 80 miles offshore ... thats another cost issue. I am just wondering if I should be taking some preventive action, even if it is close to post damage costs it could save a really bad day offshore.
I posted this over on THT and there is a corrosion thread over there that you should review.
The problem as it is right now is that unless you have to really get all the way up inside the exhaust to see if there is an issue. Taking the lower unit off and using a flashlight to just look up inside doesn't cut it. When we did this to my buddies engine it looked just fine. No real corrosion that we could see. Once the powerhead came off, it was a whole different story.
My take is that if they are going to rot, they are going to rot. Don't know that there is anything that you can do to stop the process. The new parts have what looks like a teflon coating on them. My 2005's have low enough hours that I am not worried right now, but after this summer we will pull the lower units and see if we can properly scope them.
I think the only thing you can do is check the oil every trip, look for telltale signs of exhaust bubbles changing, different exhaust noises, etc.
The problem as it is right now is that unless you have to really get all the way up inside the exhaust to see if there is an issue. Taking the lower unit off and using a flashlight to just look up inside doesn't cut it. When we did this to my buddies engine it looked just fine. No real corrosion that we could see. Once the powerhead came off, it was a whole different story.
My take is that if they are going to rot, they are going to rot. Don't know that there is anything that you can do to stop the process. The new parts have what looks like a teflon coating on them. My 2005's have low enough hours that I am not worried right now, but after this summer we will pull the lower units and see if we can properly scope them.
I think the only thing you can do is check the oil every trip, look for telltale signs of exhaust bubbles changing, different exhaust noises, etc.
What do the bubbles signify?
So if your motors put out a lot of bubbles is this a symptom of an issue? Please, no speculation, just facts if anybody knows.
So if your motors put out a lot of bubbles is this a symptom of an issue? Please, no speculation, just facts if anybody knows.
I know how to test for this, but i can not post it up on any site
if you do not know what your doing, you will bend a valve
PM me if you want, but i take no responsibility if you seize your motor
It all about blocking up the water
if you do not know what your doing, you will bend a valve
PM me if you want, but i take no responsibility if you seize your motor
It all about blocking up the water
Kenlahr said:
Do you have some details on how you did this? I am on a mooring and and had been thinking about setting something similiar up, but really didnt know where to begin.