Loss of Steering

[TonyD]

Hey! I have a 1989 Tournament and today while I was out on the lake, I found that my steering became (all of a sudden - otherwise it was fine) hard to turn. I literally needed two hands with good strength to turn the wheel (and motor). Also, when applying force, it does seem to "give", almost like I am breaking it free of something but then locks up again... If that makes sense of what I am explaining?
Some history and information. It's an outboard Yamaha that is 5-6 years old, new cables, new gauges. So I am having a hard time believing that the cables are bad... This boat does not have power or hydraulic steering, just mechanical.
When the cables and gauges were hooked up, the steering wheel and the mechanics behind the helm (connecting the steering wheel) are not new.

Any thoughts or things I should look for on this?

 

[Sparkdog118]

Sounds like your gear box could be binding. Is it rotary or rack n pinion? Every time I change a cable, I change the gear box too. Sometimes the bad cable bruises the gear box and the gear box goes bad not long after the new cable replacement. That could also lead to another bad cable when the gears go bad. If you disconnect the engine from the cable at the drag link with a 9/16 wrench, you can check the swivel bracket king pin to be sure it is free and not stressing out your cable and gear box. Also check the tilt tube to be sure it is not pinching the cable. This also stresses out the cable and gears.

 

[seasick]

Could be the box, yes. I am not sure you said that the steering cable was replaced. If not, that could be bad. In any case, take a look under the helm at the steering box for the place where the steering cable enters the box and where it comes out ( it's different for a rack steering box). Just make sure that the cable is not popping out of the box where it is normally clamped and that the other end of the cable is not hitting something

Just to cover all bases, also have a look at the steering rod setup at the motor to see if that might be binding. The way to tell is to look at the motor when the steering gets stuck and as you try to turn the wheel. Wiggling the wheel back and forth should be seen or felt at the motor. In addition you would be able to wiggle the motor a a small amount. If the motor can't be moved at all, the steering is frozen at the motor.

 

[TonyD]

Hey thanks for the suggestions - I haven't had a chance this morning to take another look yet but before I do -

- (Sparkdog) I am pretty sure that it's rotary and not rack and pinion.. the cable goes around the helm (in one side & out the bottom) but what does a rack & pinion set up look like, just so I know the difference for sure..

- (seasick) yes, the cables are new.. well, about 5-6 - they were replaced when the new engine was installed on the boat. I will have to double check but I am pretty sure that the motor wiggles if I wiggle the wheel and also, for sure, to wiggle or move the motor by hand is as tough and binding as if by the wheel... I think that is what you are saying?
If the steering is frozen at the motor, is that a sign of the cable or something going on in the tube?

 

[SkunkBoat]

First things first...
disconnect the steering cable from the motor and see if the motor pivots by hand easily and see if the steering wheel is still tight.

If its not the motor, then disconnect the cable from the helm....

 

[TonyD]

First things first...
disconnect the steering cable from the motor and see if the motor pivots by hand easily and see if the steering wheel is still tight.

If its not the motor, then disconnect the cable from the helm....

Thanks, skunk! I haven't been able to get down there yet (Stuck inside working).

If the motor moves freely when I disconnect the cable from the motor - is ti likely to be at the helm? And should the steering wheel move freely if I disconnect the cable from the helm?

 

[ScottyCee]

Post a picture of the motor when you have a chance to go back? First thing I thought of was the tilt tube at the motor side - those have a habit of freezing up. I never found a way to really preserve them although regular grease application did help.

As others have said, probably a good idea to disconnect steering and see which half of the system has the trouble. Good luck!

 

[TonyD]

Some pictures, I couldn't disconnect the cable ye - but was able to quickly grab some shots - also note - am unable to move the motor towards port, in the picture, that is as far as it will go. I can move it towards starboard but not without heavy binding.

MVIMG_20200515_142236.jpg

drive.google.com

MVIMG_20200515_142242.jpg

drive.google.com

 

[ScottyCee]

Disconnect that tie rod at one end, and you will have your answer. Smells like frozen steering cable at the tilt tube from up here in Puget Sound.

If that's what it is, it can actually be a bit of work to get it out. Wish you the best...

 

[TonyD]

Disconnect that tie rod at one end, and you will have your answer. Smells like frozen steering cable at the tilt tube from up here in Puget Sound.

If that's what it is, it can actually be a bit of work to get it out. Wish you the best...

Frozen steering cable means.. needs new cable or just clean it up?

 

[ScottyCee]

(edited)

New cable. IF that's the problem. The asymmetrical nature of the resistance isn't something that I'm familiar with though. Be sure.

I haven't done one in a long time, but in my experience with that kind of steering system the cable is often/usually the cause. Your's isn't totally frozen, so that's great - I have had to drive them out before (be careful!). You may need to take off the rubber fitting where it exits at the side and work the cable back into there to get it all the way out of the tilt tube. I had to oblong the hole in the glass a bit too once, IIRC, and you should probably disconnect at the helm end first. They can be really stiff. OTOH, you may have plenty of room.

I'm taking a leap since I'm not there, but there are a couple of possibilities. The cable itself can stick in the cable housing causing resistance for it to slide and extend - that's just the cable. Or, the rod on the end of the cable can get stuck/gummed up/corroded in the tilt tube (part of the motor), so that the rod doesn't move smoothly through the "motor parts" - where you see the grease fittings.

Going back in my memory, I'm not sure that taking the con rod off is really going to tell you anything UNLESS it's the actual motor on it's swivel/hinge that doesn't want to move - then your wheel will turn easily and the disconnected rod will extend and retract smoothly from the tilt tube. That seems unlikely to me. I suspect that you have to take it apart and replace the steering cable. That's a common repair.

Here's the whole part: https://www.westmarine.com/buy/ufle...otary-steering-cable-19--15694318?recordNum=3

The rod on the end of the cable extends from where that nut that connects to the motor is.

 

[Ky Grady]

Hey thanks for the suggestions - I haven't had a chance this morning to take another look yet but before I do -

- (Sparkdog) I am pretty sure that it's rotary and not rack and pinion.. the cable goes around the helm (in one side & out the bottom) but what does a rack & pinion set up look like, just so I know the difference for sure..

Here you go,,,,,

Rotary


Rack and pinion

 

[TonyD]

Okay, well, I disconnected the cable from the tie rod and the motor moves freely. The steering wheel still is a tough route - so, I am going to pull the cable out of the tube..... did someone say disconnect the cable from the helm first?

 

[TonyD]

Thanks, Ky Grady - I have the rotary style!

 

[ScottyCee]

I always found that I needed to push the cable back into the hole. You may be able to put a bend in it but you're probably going to have to take it off of the helm anyway.

 

[SkunkBoat]

Thanks, skunk! I haven't been able to get down there yet (Stuck inside working).

If the motor moves freely when I disconnect the cable from the motor - is ti likely to be at the helm? And should the steering wheel move freely if I disconnect the cable from the helm?

If the motor moves very easily, that is good news. If the motor is bound up, it is from dried grease in the swivel bracket. Major PIA to clean out. Been there, done that....
Not likely given the age but possible.

If the problem is with the cable....

Dried grease in the tilt tube is the MOST likely culprit.
Unscrew the nut and spray liberally with WD40 from both ends and work the helm until it loosens. Then re-grease...

Often you cannot remove the cable from the motor without moving/removing the motor. The rod part of the cable is not flexible. On many boats it is just too long to bend into the motorwell bulkhead.

The cable itself can be rusted up inside, especially if the cover was nicked.


Least likely problem is the helm. You can test by disconnecting the cable.

 

[TonyD]

Thank you everyone! So I was able to get out there this evening..and as I noted above, I released the cable from the tie rod and the motor now moves freely.. very easily like it's unattached, of course..

So I started try to pull the cable through the tube and while that wasn't too hard - I only got as far as room would let me. Skunkboat, as you mentioned, it seems almost impossible without moving the motor.

MVIMG_20200515_195549.jpg

drive.google.com

MVIMG_20200515_195554.jpg

drive.google.com

So at this point I know it's not the motor.
I tried to disconnect the cable at the helm, I pulled a cotter pin and there is nothing else I see holding the cable in there.. any suggestions? I just want to try it just to see if it is the helm for giggles to rule it out.

But, SkunkBoat - when you say spray with WD-40 "on both ends" - you mean inside the tube? I can't get into the tube on both ends since I can't get the whole cable out. Unless you mean both ends of the rod and just work it through the tube?

BTW when regressing (if/when I get that far) I read grease with white lithium grease on the rod, is that right?

Thank you everyone! So very helpful!

 

[SkunkBoat]

Thank you everyone! So I was able to get out there this evening..and as I noted above, I released the cable from the tie rod and the motor now moves freely.. very easily like it's unattached, of course..

So I started try to pull the cable through the tube and while that wasn't too hard - I only got as far as room would let me. Skunkboat, as you mentioned, it seems almost impossible without moving the motor.

MVIMG_20200515_195549.jpg

drive.google.com

MVIMG_20200515_195554.jpg

drive.google.com

So at this point I know it's not the motor.
I tried to disconnect the cable at the helm, I pulled a cotter pin and there is nothing else I see holding the cable in there.. any suggestions? I just want to try it just to see if it is the helm for giggles to rule it out.

But, SkunkBoat - when you say spray with WD-40 "on both ends" - you mean inside the tube? I can't get into the tube on both ends since I can't get the whole cable out. Unless you mean both ends of the rod and just work it through the tube?

BTW when regressing (if/when I get that far) I read grease with white lithium grease on the rod, is that right?

Thank you everyone! So very helpful!

Whatever you do...don't bend it!
yep...since you can't get it out...spray in at both ends ..try to disolve old grease (if thats the problem)..turn the wheel and work it.
If its just dry grease then it will start to get easier and get the full range back.

I have always used the "blue" marine grease for everything.

Still a chance it is the cable rusted inside. Possibly the steering cable was not replaced at repower.

and yes...MAYBE the helm.

 

[ScottyCee]

Yeah, yeah, what skunk said above!

Your first pictures make it look like possibly they connected the steering cable before they dropped the motor on. That seems like a dirty trick when you're trying to replace it.

It's easy to get the old cable out if you don't mind using destructive methods on it, but that will not get the new one in.

 

[Bob Meola]

Sounds like you need helm.