Loss of Steering

[Sparkdog118]

i use mostly quicksilver lubricants. the 2-4C grease is very good for the steering. quicksilver also makes the best lower unit oil. high performance gear lube is blue. I use it in almost all lower units. I would try rolling the cable out of the helm to inspect the cable worm gear and see if there is any metal on it from the gears. if you have a safe t helm< there is a pin to pull out. use the pin to push in the locking mechanism and turn the wheel at the same time. the cable will roll right out of the gear box.

 

[ScottyCee]

I hadn’t noticed your new pictures. No, those don’t look to be in bad shape at all. Especially if it came out that far so easily. I’m with others that are saying more likely helm.

 

[seasick]

probably the helm. On the smaller hulls, I know that the cable can't be pulled out of the motor unless the motor is shifted to the opposite side of the transom.
It doesn't sound line the cable is bad at this point so try replacing the helm. If there are still binding issues, then you will need to replace the cable.
For the record: WD40 is not a lubricant. It is mostly kerosene and is a pretty good universal cleaner and de-greaser but it is not a substitute for the proper lubrication

 

[SkunkBoat]

probably the helm. On the smaller hulls, I know that the cable can't be pulled out of the motor unless the motor is shifted to the opposite side of the transom.
It doesn't sound line the cable is bad at this point so try replacing the helm. If there are still binding issues, then you will need to replace the cable.
For the record: WD40 is not a lubricant. It is mostly kerosene and is a pretty good universal cleaner and de-greaser but it is not a substitute for the proper lubrication

The WD was to remove the grease not replace it.
From the new picture it doesn't look like there is dried grease.

I still don't think you'vr ruled out the cable. They can rust inside just like control cables.

Certainly need to disconnect the helm, take a good look at it. Make sure the cable has room to exit the helm.
Even if it turns without a cable it doesn't mean it turns with a cable...

Think about how you are going to move the motor if you need a cable. A 1 ton motor jack is $130 at HF...maybe less...I got one for $99 a few years ago.

 

[Ky Grady]

You still need to rule out the cable first. May still have to pull motor to do that. Cable needs to come out of the helm to make sure it spins freely. Most steering issues I've encountered were cable related.

 

[seasick]

You still need to rule out the cable first. May still have to pull motor to do that. Cable needs to come out of the helm to make sure it spins freely. Most steering issues I've encountered were cable related.

I think his cable is 5 years old. That is fairly 'new'. The steering boxes tend to wear out the shaft bushing and than can cause the box to bind. A gear could be shot also.
As to removing, you may not need to shift the motor to remove the helm. That depends on how much play you have under the helm and where the steering cable routes. I have been able to remove the cable at the helm on my 208 hull.

 

[Ky Grady]

I think his cable is 5 years old. That is fairly 'new'. The steering boxes tend to wear out the shaft bushing and than can cause the box to bind. A gear could be shot also.
As to removing, you may not need to shift the motor to remove the helm. That depends on how much play you have under the helm and where the steering cable routes. I have been able to remove the cable at the helm on my 208 hull.

Stranger things have happened. Didn't catch the 5 year old cable. Could be helm then. Yep, if he has room and mechanically inclined and can work the problem, he could possibly swap helms without pulling the cable.

 

[TonyD]

So, super super helpful, everyone!

I de-greased the cable (rod) at the tube. It read didn't seem like the problem, but I had to rule it out. Moving on- I finally figured out how to disconnect the cable from the helm. I found metal shavings as I was removing the cable - and once all removed, the steering wheel still had issue. At this point, I have troubleshooted this to be the helm.

My next question is, I am assuming there is an aftermarket way to get a replacement... is thera a way to order from Grady or make a cross reference part number?

TD

 

[SkunkBoat]

So, super super helpful, everyone!

I de-greased the cable (rod) at the tube. It read didn't seem like the problem, but I had to rule it out. Moving on- I finally figured out how to disconnect the cable from the helm. I found metal shavings as I was removing the cable - and once all removed, the steering wheel still had issue. At this point, I have troubleshooted this to be the helm.

My next question is, I am assuming there is an aftermarket way to get a replacement... is thera a way to order from Grady or make a cross reference part number?

TD

probably Teleflex NFB 4.2

 

[Ky Grady]

You don't need to go through Grady for this. Get online and order you a new helm and cable. There will be a number on the cable giving you the length you need to order. Teleflex makes them, Wholesale Marine has them.

 

[seasick]

Teleflex is now Seastar. The NFB is appropriate but there are a few different models. The actual steering unit comes in two versions, one for tilt option and one for no tilt. If you have the tilt now, in theory you can reuse it with the new steering box or you can buy a complete package with a new tilt mechanism.
If you have never pulled a steering wheel off, do a little research. It is somewhat easy to damage the unit or even more critical, whack your self in the face and teeth The proper tool can be quite helpful

 

[TonyD]

You think I need a new cable too? I should be Abe to use the same cable, no?

But finding the right helm I need, (I have no idea which one to get) I guess I have to know what cable I have that will fit the model helm I need?

And nope, never pulled a steering wheel off before but it looks like I am going to need a puller..

 

[seasick]

You think I need a new cable too? I should be Abe to use the same cable, no?

But finding the right helm I need, (I have no idea which one to get) I guess I have to know what cable I have that will fit the model helm I need?

And nope, never pulled a steering wheel off before but it looks like I am going to need a puller..

I would try a new box and reuse the old cable. Nothing to lose.
You would want to pull the old unit and see what make and model it is. It may be an old Teleflex but the new Seastar units are pretty much the same unit. The model you need depends on whether you have the tilt steering option. That actually makes replacement a bit trickier. Tech support at Seastar has been good in the past ( may not be as good right now) and they can give you all the part numbers you need as well as answer questions.
You would be looking at the NFB model. 4.2 sounds right but measure you old steering number of turns from on extreme to the other.
Take a look at this link. It is the NFB 4.2 for tilt ( tilt kit is extra)
Often the wheel can be removed without a puller. The trick is to loosen the nut but don't take it off. Just leave a little gap so that the wheel doesn't come flying off as you tug on it ( that's when the dentist may be needed)
Some people loosen the nut a bit, yank up on the wheel and that whack the nut with a piece of 2x4. If you are replacing the unit, you don't need to be a careful hitting the nut with a hammer but if there is tilt option, you don't want to do that since you may want to reuse the tilt mechanism. There should be some videos online somewhere. I will take a look.

 

[TonyD]

I would try a new box and reuse the old cable. Nothing to lose.
You would want to pull the old unit and see what make and model it is. It may be an old Teleflex but the new Seastar units are pretty much the same unit. The model you need depends on whether you have the tilt steering option. That actually makes replacement a bit trickier. Tech support at Seastar has been good in the past ( may not be as good right now) and they can give you all the part numbers you need as well as answer questions.
You would be looking at the NFB model. 4.2 sounds right but measure you old steering number of turns from on extreme to the other.
Take a look at this link. It is the NFB 4.2 for tilt ( tilt kit is extra)
Often the wheel can be removed without a puller. The trick is to loosen the nut but don't take it off. Just leave a little gap so that the wheel doesn't come flying off as you tug on it ( that's when the dentist may be needed)
Some people loosen the nut a bit, yank up on the wheel and that whack the nut with a piece of 2x4. If you are replacing the unit, you don't need to be a careful hitting the nut with a hammer but if there is tilt option, you don't want to do that since you may want to reuse the tilt mechanism. There should be some videos online somewhere. I will take a look.

Yeah I came across the NFB 4.2 during my searches this morning but I have to make sure it's the correct one. (I don't think I have a tilt mechanism? If I do, it sure doesn't or hasn't ever worked - lol)

yes, I did see a video of pulling the wheel off without a puller.. assuming I do not have a tilt mechanism, I'll try that and then get the helm off to see what model I have. Thanks!!

 

[seasick]

Let us know how it TURNS out

 

[TonyD]

I see what you did there! ha!

Okay, got the steering wheel off, much easier that I expected but the helm itself, still unsure of how to get that out from behind the console. I had to take apart a housing off of the helm to get the part out but I still have the housing stuck back there. So now I have two pieces of the helm. 1 pice I have and a second piece behind the console under the dash.

The problem is on the 3/4 shaft of the helm has a groove on it (that the steering wheel locked into) but I can't get the shaft past the console.. see the pic -

MVIMG_20200517_172245.jpg

drive.google.com

I also do not see a part or model number on the helm..
anyways, here are the two pieces....

MVIMG_20200517_181344.jpg

drive.google.com

MVIMG_20200517_180315.jpg

drive.google.com

MVIMG_20200517_180258.jpg

drive.google.com

 

[SkunkBoat]

pic 1. thats a woodruff key...you have to tap it out of the shaft

 

[seasick]

It may take a decent whack to get the key out.

Oh, Looking at your picture, you don't have tilt.
I think the correct part is SH4910P
I am not sure who made the part in your photos. I don't see any stamps on it. Is there a part number printed on the steering cable? It would be helpful to know if it will mate to the Seastar NFB unit

 

[TonyD]

A woodruff, key.. wow! Okay, I whacked that little guy. Now on the helm, no part numbest at all on there. On the steering cable, also no part number but it does say Made By Teleflex Marine, USA.

So I think I am going to go with the Teleflex NFB 4.2 helm...

Thanks everyone - I'll let you know when the part comes and the boat is steering again!

 

[seasick]

Great. Good luck