Replacing 1983 Seafarer floor/gas tank

[NOTHING ELSE MATTERS]

If I use 3/4 in. for my supports for the deck, what would everyone use to secure them? epoxy,pl adhesive,screws :hmm

Mix some thickened epoxy and glue it together(clamp it every 6-8" until dry), it won't move.

 

[richie rich]

I agree, the epoxy will hold on its own......you can use SS screws (if you're leaving them) or regular screws (if removing them afterwards) instead of clamps if you don't have any but its not needed......the key still remains in the underside prep where you will be glueing to....got to get under there and sand/grind it down really good for the resin to bond....and don't over clamp the joint and squeeze out all the resin....just tight enough to spread the load and get a 100% surrounding wet out/face to face contact. The epoxy has great strength in gap filling areas.

 

[mac83]

Sounds good...I'm probably just going to clamp it. I don't want use s read any more than I have to. I believe that my two center compartment were screwed dow. I think that's where the rot began. Before they get screwed back down, ill screw pilot holes, pull the hatch, then overdrill then and fill with epoxy, let that dry very good, then redrill and put the hatch down. Hows that sound? I've got a lot of work before I have to worry about that though.

 

[richie rich]

drill, fill, redrill is the way to go

 

[mac83]

So, lately I've had a lot going on and havn't had much time to work on the boat. Finally got out there for a couple hours this afternoon and got about half of the foam out on the port side. Wow, that is time consuming. I was actually suprised that I didn't find any water in the foam until I got near the outside stringer. The stringer was wet with a little bit of rot toward the back where my rotted rear bulkhead crosses it. I'm starting to think this is going to be a full restoration. Should I pull the whole stringer out? I dont want to cut anymore of the deck. Do you think I will be able to fit the outer stringer in without taking the rest of the deck up? (Refer to the previous picuture below) I only cut up to where the fish boxes are.

In this process I'll be replacing all drains/thru-hulls/plumbing. One reason that I'm kind of leaning toward replacing everthing. I'm starting to think that I may want to both sides at the same time vs. doing the whole port side then the starboard side but I've always heard that the hull can lose it's integrity if you cut stringers and remove the foam all at one time. What are everyones thoughts? If I have to do one side at a time, I'm thinking once I get the whole port side open and stringers removed, I'll have to cut just the rear part of the starboard stringer out so I can access the whole rear bulkhead. I'm thinking I'll start at the back and work my way up. Replacing those little supports in the bilge, then the whole rear bulkhead, then on the stringers? Thank for all of the opinions guys.

 

[richie rich]

Would have to see a more detailed pic of what you found, but you may be able to splice in a piece of new stringer to the existing, but still solid remaining section. It becomes a task of getting access to the hull side of the stringer for glassing if its still under the deck....maybe with the rear bulkhead removed you can get at it......As far as doing both sides at once, the hull can flex if you remove "everything" front to back and left to right, but removing just a couple of feet in the transom area is not a big deal......especially if the boat is supported on bunks and stands all around....and you haven't cut the transom or much of the liner, so all is held in place.

Lets see what it looks like without all that foam....

 

[mac83]

Well it's been a while. I got at it the other day and got everything out on the port side. Once I got all of the foam out on the other side of the main stringer, I started to see some rot. Sure enough, it was the outer stringer. Took the tools to it and out it came. I was SOO HAPPY that I decided to go past the main stringer. Once I got the outer stringer and foam out (came out in once piece, looked like they laid plastic down before they poured the foam... raise ), I realized that the bottom inch of foam was soaked. I was searching around behind the foam and found our that one of the thru-hull was broken off. All of the water that was doing down the drains in the floor was going right against that outer section of foam.

I'd really like to take out the starboard section also so I can open this whole thing up at one time. That way I know I'll have all of the rotten wood at one time. I have seen a few termites. :bang I'm just worried about the weight of the helm and seats...I'm not cutting all of that out. I guess I could support it with jack stands or something but not sure what I should do. I think if I were to do one side at a time, I should be ok...Right now seems like it has pretty good stength. I did put a piece of wood underneath just to carry some of the load.

I left a very small section on the port side that runs up to the forward bulkhead. I'm thinking I'll be replacing that also...I found some rot at the bottom and I'd really just feel more comfortable knowing that I replaced everything so that I know I will not have any issues going foward.

This whole thing came out in one piece!!!

I'm so glad yall pushed me to replace and check everything!!!!

Gutted...still have some cleaning up to do.

I'll be doing some more work the next couple days. Let me know what yall think guys. Thanks for all of your ideas and help.

 

[richie rich]

you can get under the helm without it collapsing, it will sag about an inch but thats it,,,,take pics and measurements at every cutting step so you know where to go back to...got to find where the rot stops

 

[mac83]

How did you bed your stringers? What is that you have against your stringers? Are they just supports until your stringers are glassed? Did you have any trouble glassing the outside stringer in?

 

[mac83]

Did you use 3/4 inch for your stringers and bulkheads?

 

[richie rich]

Those aren't in yet, just prefabbed and measured...I am working on other areas of the boat and want to be done with all messy grinding before glueing anymore...I just keep finding more stuff to do.

I am using 3/4 ply.....it was original...and I am using butt splices and double butt blocks to cover each side of the splice.......you can go with 2 layers of 3/8 instead and glue them together with the joints staggered far apart...this will make for a seamless and very long stringer if you do it that way...

You can bed them 2 ways...either make an epoxy putty and bed them, folowed by making large epoxy fillets on each side...this makes an nice transition for the glass to go from the stringer to the the hull and it also eliminates any points or possible hard spots from the edge of the wood being against a flexible hull. Most people do it this way.
The other way is to pre-fab this radius by making little foam trapezoids out of structural foam like Divinycell....cut narrow strips on a 45* where one end matches the width of the stringer and the other is then wider and wil sit on the hull...glue the wood to the trap, and then the trap to the hull....then glass as usual.....both methods do the same thing...in the end, I don't think either one is cheaper to make than the other..

The extra wood you see is a smaller "sister" stringer next to the main...originally, Grady had the 2x4 fuel tank stringer extend into the forward deck area...not even really glassed in well, kinda just there....so I am replacing that with a couple of extra smaller pieces in lieu of the 2x4 in that area....the fuel tank stringer will stop behind the bulkhead so as not to make any unnecessary holes in the main bulkhead.

 

[mac83]

So...I'm replacing all of my plumbing also while I've got everything open...Should I just replace with the regular marelon or go with stainless steel. I'm concerned with how long the marelon will last. I've researched a little and everyone says they last at least 10 years. I really dont want to have to ever replace these again. Major pain in butt without the floor and stringers removed. What is everyones opinion on this?

 

[gw204]

I would go stainless...and also build in new ways to access the thru-hulls easily.

 

[richie rich]

I would go stainless...and also build in new ways to access the thru-hulls easily.

B, what is the rule with that...stainless above or below the waterline? The original cheap plastic on my 88 lasted 20 years then fell apart....I'm going with a quality bronze for the pick up...but for drains and bilges I was thinking Marelon...supposedly, they are fiber filled for strength and UV protected and you never have to deal with corrosion...but I hear conflicting reports as to one vs the other.....if I get 20 years of trouble free from either, I'll be happy...I cant see how plastic lasted 20+ years and Marelon will only go 10...they are UL and ABYC rated/approved :hmm

 

[NOTHING ELSE MATTERS]

Stainless above water, bronze below and forget about them for a lifetime.

Oh, make sure they are grounded.

 

[richie rich]

Stainless above water, bronze below and forget about them for a lifetime.

Oh, make sure they are grounded.

so you gotta bond each thru hull with a wire, front to back?? what a PITA,,,,,,seriously liftime as in forever?? not sure i'll live that long

 

[cgmiller]

Rich,

I replaced 3 of my thru hulls this spring and I replaced 2 with marelon...which is what the original 20 year old ones that I CUT out were made of...I would have done them all the same but I could not come up with 3 of them between 3 stores...I ended up with 1 stainless steel one...

 

[richie rich]

I replaced 2 with marelon...which is what the original 20 year old ones that I CUT out were made of...

Are you sure they were Marelon? My originals were plain old plastic, not the reinforced Marelon stuff.....I just don't want to deal with bond wires and corrosion....I hear good things about this stuff....but no personal history with it...

 

[NOTHING ELSE MATTERS]

O.K, Now i have to ask. What is "Marelon" ? All this time i thought that was the old white plastic ones all Grady have. Is this something new material ? I have not seen them at my local shops or West Marine.

 

[richie rich]

the old stuff was just plastic, Delrin I believe, but it could be something else......Marelon is made by Forespar...it is plastic based but reinforced with fibers and has added UV protection....so it gives you great strength for a plastic from the fibers and it takes care of the old degredation from UV regular plastic use to deal with....thats why the old stuff became so brittle.......marelon is strong enough to be considered for seacock's and in-line valves and is UL and ABYC rated for that category, just like bronze and SS......this is all theory as I have not used it personally, but it passes a lot of tests....and it aint cheap.......an 1.5 inch seacock is $100...even a 3/4 inch is $50.......this aint the cheap plastic stuff at West Marine!!!