Repower 265 Express

[Diad]

Good morning everyone and Merry Christmas!
I am considering a repower on my 265 Express. No hurry, but I’m starting to research. I currently have 2005 F225’s on my 2003 265X. I just redid all of the electronics and new fuel tanks and lines. I am keeping this boat for a while! from reading through it looks like some of you went with Suzuki 200’s, but that deciZion was made a few years ago. Do you think that you would make that same choice today? My boat is rated for 500HP and I definitely want electronic controls. So I guess that I would be comparing DF250’s to the DF200’s in Suzuki speak. I assume that Suzuki is still the lesser cost compared to Merc and Yami.
if you were looking to repower a 265 or similar style of boat, what motors would you be looking at and why?

 

[Sardinia306Bimini]

I had a lot of Suzukis and Yamahas and would repower again with Suzukis, because i know them very well and they never gave me problems (while the Yamahas did).

First thing to consider is availability of a good dealership with experienced mechanics nearby and then price difference what i have no idea how it's over there but usually Suzukis are considerable less and warranty is/was longer.

If you don't mind digital controls then i would go with the Suzuki V6 and probably the 200HP as it's the lowest HP rating of the series, but all only with cable steering. I would not mind cable steering for a single engine boat but digital controls are just ways better for docking/manoevering as you can use them with one hand instead of both for a cable steering.

For digital steering, there is the DF250AP, the depotentioned DF300AP what is a awesome engine too, but price would be considerable higher and honestly the AP (selective rotation) system is not really useful. There are two points what makes the selective rotation of use:
1) you can easily invert rotation to check if inward or outward rotatin gives better performance
2) you could carry only one spare propeller and after telling the engine what rotation the prop is you could return with both engines.
However, swapping a propeller in the open sea is much more complicated (and can be dangerous) as people think and i would not recommend that eccept it's a matter of life and death. Did that in the Marina and it was complicated and i would not do that offshore with some waves.

Chris

 

[SkunkBoat]

The DF200APs are plenty enough for the boat. You get digital controls for the price of mechanical Yammie i4 F200s.
DF225s are only mechanical and weigh the same as a DF250AP. The hull is rated at 450hp...maybe the 2003-5 bumped up to500? idk
There was a guy who put DF250s on a 265. I think there was also one who put DF300s which is just overkill.

If you go bigger I would look at the new Mercs (not the Verados). Very light V6 250s.
My only concern there is that I know a few sad stories about brand new Verados, including lower unit problems

 

[Sardinia306Bimini]

Yes,
the 2.8L DF200AP I-4 would be a option too, but they are top HP for the Inline 4 cylinder engine series and i personally would prefer the 3.6L V6 with more displacement. I had the 200HP V6 and it was one of my most abused but still best outboards i had, sold it after 9 years with about 3600 hours and still going strong.
However, the I-4 is a great outboard too.

Chris

 

[Mustang65fbk]

A few things to note here would be that per the brochure, a 2003 GW 265 Express hull is rated for 500 hp. I've seen a few forum members on here with twin 200's on their boats and with positive things to say about them. Though, you could always add 250's if you wanted to, and I don't think you'd have any issues. On top of that and with regards to weight, there are a couple different versions of the Suzuki 250. The Suzuki DF250AP is slightly heavier at 639 lbs a piece for the 25" shaft version. Of which they now have a DF250ATSS that has the drive by wire controls and it weighs a little bit less at 606 lbs a piece for the 25" shaft version of the motor. Comparatively to the OP's current setup, per Google they claim that a 2005 Yamaha F225 4 stroke has a dry weight of 583 lbs a piece for the 25" shaft version of the motor. So, I don't think that an extra 23 lbs of weight per motor would likely be a dealbreaker one way or the other in regard to outboard weight. I think the biggest decision here would be dealer locations nearby, their reputation and/or reviews, budget and frankly how fast you want to go. If the price between the two is negligible then I'd definitely go with the higher hp motors, but as mentioned above, I don't think you can go wrong with 200's either. Though my only concern would be about losing weight with the smaller, lighter motors. The Suzuki 200 only weighs 531 lbs a piece, so they're about 50 lbs lighter per piece than your current Yamaha F225's, for around 100 lbs total in weight loss. I don't think that would be a make or break argument either for the boat in regards to weight, but if the boat handles just fine or better currently, I'd maybe just stick with something of a similar weight so you're not more bow heavy. If that makes any sense...

https://gradywhite.blob.core.windows.net/media/21320/2003.pdf

Suzuki Outboard Motor I DF250AP V-6 I Suzuki Marine

Suzuki Marine 250 hp outboard motor. V-6 4-stroke. Suzuki Selective Rotation for clockwise or standard rotation. See the DF250AP specs. Find a dealer.

www.suzukimarine.com

Suzuki Outboard Motor I SS Series DF250ATSS I Suzuki Marine

Suzuki Marine 250 hp Sport Series (SS) AT outboard motor. 4-stroke power and smooth acceleration. See the DF250ATSS specs. Find a dealer.

www.suzukimarine.com

Suzuki Outboard Motor I DF200A In-Line 4 I Suzuki Marine

Suzuki Marine 200 hp outboard motor. In-line 4-stroke. Torque and power with a 3-star Ultra-Low Emission rating. See the DF200A specs. Find a dealer.

www.suzukimarine.com

 

[Diad]

Thank you all for the wonderful head start! I have had several boats with the larger Suzuki motors (250 and 300’s) and have had great luck with them. There are a few dealers around here too! Actually, we have all three dealers around where I live! I’m going to start reading up and understanding the price differences so that I am prepared. I’m hoping for a few more striper catch and release trips before the end of the year. I will pull out in early January to install the autopilot (which includes all new hydraulic lines) and do my engine maintenance. I’ll run a scope up with the lower unit off to see what I can with regards to potential corrosion.

 

[SeaVee]

I love my DF 200’s on mine- great set up. Highly recommend. I got mechanical controls , about 38k out the door. Dealer is 5 miles away so another bonus. Looked at the 225 V6 Mercs but it was 54 week lead time when I bought. 200 Yami’s were 8k higher, got an AP and some other work done with the money I saved

 

[MLC]

I love my DF 200’s on mine- great set up. Highly recommend. I got mechanical controls , about 38k out the door. Dealer is 5 miles away so another bonus. Looked at the 225 V6 Mercs but it was 54 week lead time when I bought. 200 Yami’s were 8k higher, got an AP and some other work done with the money I saved

I too have a 265 that I’d like to repower. What is your most economical cruise speed and gph with the DF 200’s?

 

[Mustang65fbk]

I love my DF 200’s on mine- great set up. Highly recommend. I got mechanical controls , about 38k out the door. Dealer is 5 miles away so another bonus. Looked at the 225 V6 Mercs but it was 54 week lead time when I bought. 200 Yami’s were 8k higher, got an AP and some other work done with the money I saved

Any reasoning for going with the mechanical controls vs the digital or drive by wire ones? Was there a significant price difference or wait time?

 

[SeaVee]

When mechanical b/c it was quicker to get and cheaper. Plus I am old school and don’t like new tech . But seriously, I have been running a friends boat with FBW and I’d probably have gone with it if I knew then what I know now. But I really hate how sensitive those digital throttles are . Only have 30 hours or so but seeing 1.4ish at 27knts/ 4300ish RPMs. Still dialing it in. Very happy so far.

 

[Sardinia306Bimini]

But I really hate how sensitive those digital throttles are .

Thats a common misbelieve, the friction of (at least) Suzuki digital throttles can be regulated same way as push/pull cable throttles.

However, there is nothing wrong with p/p cable commands and im glad you are happy with your Zukes!
Doi you have the I-4 or the V6 models?

Chris

 

[SkunkBoat]

I too have a 265 that I’d like to repower. What is your most economical cruise speed and gph with the DF 200’s?

Its all in here
https://www.greatgrady.com/threads/265-express-suzuki-df200apxw2.29099/

There are numbers in this one for DF250s
https://www.greatgrady.com/threads/265-express-w-suzuki-df250ap-re-post.28878/

 

[Mustang65fbk]

When mechanical b/c it was quicker to get and cheaper. Plus I am old school and don’t like new tech . But seriously, I have been running a friends boat with FBW and I’d probably have gone with it if I knew then what I know now. But I really hate how sensitive those digital throttles are . Only have 30 hours or so but seeing 1.4ish at 27knts/ 4300ish RPMs. Still dialing it in. Very happy so far.

Just out of curiosity... do you remember the difference in price between the two?

 

[vocz]

The 2004 F225’s are heavier than 4.2 F300. You have the 2003 hull, which made for the 4 stroke. Why not hang couple of F250 - F300’s as they are still lighter than what you have now.

 

[Diad]

The 2004 F225’s are heavier than 4.2 F300. You have the 2003 hull, which made for the 4 stroke. Why not hang couple of F250 - F300’s as they are still lighter than what you have now.

cost. It appears from everything that I read that Yamaha is much more expensive compared to Suzuki. Probably will get a quote though just to have my own data. The hull is only rated for 500hp so max for me will be 250’s. I’m not sure what happens with insurance if I go over the listed HP.

 

[SeaVee]

I get that the throttle friction is adjustable, but that short “throw” messed me up as well, just an old dumb guy, I guess. But then I found out you can sync them when running, which is hard to do and keep it there with the mechanicals . IIRC the black mechanicals were about 2k ish more than the whites FBW’s and a few months more on delivery

 

[Mustang65fbk]

IIRC the black mechanicals were about 2k ish more than the whites FBW’s and a few months more on delivery

Wait... the black mechanical motors were $2k more than the white FBW motors? Seems like it would be the other way around, but if that is correct I'd go with the white FBW and save the $2k. Even if the white FBW motors were $2k more, I think I'd definitely still go that route as an extra $2k when you're talking about $40k or more is pretty negligible. Either way, sounds as though you're happy with your current setup, which is all that matters.

 

[drbatts]

When I had thoughts of repowering my 265, before I sold it, I would have gone with yamaha 250's. At that time there were no suzuki dealers locally, and some question on part availability. There was also little to no info out on the newer 200hp engines from both manufacturers. The numbers with the new 200hp Suzuki's that some owners(Skunk) have reported look pretty darn good. I also don't understand the idea of keeping the old controls, cables, and not upgrading to the newer digital controls. I get that you save a little money, which in the entire cost of a repower, including all the other incidentals of the project, is really not all that much. additionally, why keep the old 20-year-old parts that have lived their life in a saltwater environment. You're replacing an older engine with newer technology, why not do the same with the controls. The newer digital controls are so much nicer and smoother than the older ones. especially in handling around the dock and marinas.

 

[Diad]

What are other costs/considerations in a repower? Particularly, steering. I currently have a single ram with a tie bar. I am planning to replace all of the hydraulic lines anyway because of the AP install. Can i reuse the helm and the ram? Is the Garmin 1.2 pump adequate for twin df250’s? Can a single ram/tie bar system still work in this configuration? Definitely would be digital controls so those cables would be removed.
what about the old motors?
Do the dealers ever deal with them or buy them from you or do I need to take them home to have my wife B about them in the garage every day? Not sure what they are worth or even how to sell/transport them.

a lot to consider in a repower…..

 

[drbatts]

You should be able to reuse the helm and ram that you have. If you look at skunkboats posts of his re-power he was able to change some of the steering components to get the engines to fully tilt out of the water. If you are going with garmin AP, then get the smart pump. I put one in in 2020 and it has been the best AP I have owned, it will steer at any speed and sea condition I have been in. There should be a market for your old motors provided they are running. When I got re-power quotes included where trade in value of the motors. You can also list them for sale here, other boating sites and marketplace.

The other costs that will come up will vary from boat to boat and how crazy you want to get. Since your engines are off, what does the bang plate look like? does it need to be replaced? or do you plan on glassing over the top of the transom? Since the engines are off, what do the motorwell drains look like. If they are original, you may want to think about doing those as it will be much easier without the engines and rigging in the way. You are going to have your 20-year-old boat apart, and good access to a lot of systems, you are going to find other problems that will need to be addressed. It's just the nature of boat ownership. looks like you already did the fuel lines and the tanks so those are good.